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TOPIC: League rules - sliding |
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| Jim
July 23, 2007
9:49:51 PM
Entry #: 2277961
| This inquiry was received from Ray Niederwerfer of the E Coli Happens team:
One rule that I have been lobbying for is to allow the base runners the choice to slide headfirst into the bases. Too many times this year (and in other years) inexperienced people that do not know how to align themselves with the bag they are covering are causing collisions when the runner tries to over-run a bag that the fielder is blocking. Too many times this will result in an injury to one or the other, or both. This is always followed by a bit of arguing. Giving the runner the choice to slide headfirst will avoid the collisions and the arguing (I Hope.) The only person that might get a little bumped up would be the runner, but remember that it would be his/her choice to slide or not. In my opinion the number of incidents would be greatly reduced.
The other idea I have is to double up the bases (like you would see at first base on some fields) so there is an over-run bag and a coverage bag. This would allow the runner a free path to run at full speed through the bag without interference from a fielder. If for some reason the fielder is blocking the over-run bag, the the runner would automatically be safe. If this is something to try we need to ensure there is an extra set of bases for each game. The cost of those flat orange rubber bases are not that much. this is all we would need for the over run bases.
Let me know your thoughts.
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| Jim
July 23, 2007
9:52:00 PM
Entry #: 2277966
| Reply from Bill Hettinger of the Bisons:
I don't think the Bisons would be opposed to the sliding rule. Also, I think you should be able to slide feet first in addition to head first. I can think of several times this year where a feet first slide would have eliminated an injury or argument.
The double-up base is not going to solve the problem. They tend to be more confusing than anything else. The problem generally occurs when somebody is fielding from behind the base rather than from the front or side. If they are out of position, they probably are going to end up blocking the over-run base as well.
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| Jim
July 23, 2007
9:55:15 PM
Entry #: 2277975
| Personally, I am against sliding. Maybe for some future year, but definitely not this year. The league is long-established as a no-slide league, and that's how everyone has played all season. Most other leagues I've played in, men's or coed, have also been no-sliding. I feel that except for a handful of people, no one is accustomed to sliding, whether as a baserunner, or as a fielder. So I think it's too drastic a change to throw in during the season. Maybe implement a slide rule prior to next season for the whole league and see how it goes, then all teams can get used to it.
In all the games I've played, I've seen few collisions from people blocking a base and don't see it as a huge problem. It happens once in a while, but I don't think its widespread. If we allow sliding and someone happens to block a base, the fielder is going to be wiped out by the slide and there's still going to be injuries, and arguments. Then I can see arguments about guys going out of the baseline breaking up double plays. Sliding may cut down on some injuries, or reduce certain types of arguments, but in other ways, it's going to lead to injuries and create new arguments.
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| Jim
July 23, 2007
9:56:00 PM
Entry #: 2277979
| Reply from Kim Grehn of CPTV:
We have several players that do not know how to slide. They will get hurt if they do.
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| Jim
July 23, 2007
10:06:36 PM
Entry #: 2278007
| Reply from Henry Pienkos of the Bisons
When baseball was in its infancy, sliding was "invented" to reduce injuries. I have played baseball through Babe Ruth leagues and junior high school, played men's softball ever since, and coached girls' high school softball at the varsity level at one of the most successful programs in the state. All these places have a "must slide" rule for safety, runners must give themselves up and not plow into a defensive player possessing the ball. This league is the first time I have ever seen a "no slide" rule and I can't believe there has not been a serious injury because of it. I have been involved in several collisions and near collisions this year because of this poorly thought out rule. Who is it meant to protect, the runner or the defensive player? How is it supposed to protect them?
The problem with this league is that defensive players do not know where to stand when receiving a throw, neither on forceouts or tag plays. There have been occasions when I am running the bases, barreling down on some clueless 2nd base person, and they are standing directly on top of the base, even if the throw is not on the way. If I chose, by your rules, I could run straight through the base and level this person. How the hell is this safe? But in sportsmanship, I've slowed down approaching the base and at times veered away from the base. With the added competition of the Cove Cup, I know there are some players that will not choose this humanitarian option. If I was allowed to slide, and because I know how to slide, I would execute a "pop up" slide, reach base quickly and safely, without ever touching the defensive player, despite the fact they were standing directly on the base I slid into.
Additionally, runners that do not slide should "give themselves up." If a runner collides with a defensive player with possession of the ball, the runner has interfered and they should be out.
If you insist on a "no slide" rule for some illusion of safety, then consider expanding upon it to make all tag plays like force outs. If the ball beats the runner, the runner is out. No need for a tag and less risk of injury.
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| Jim
July 23, 2007
10:43:58 PM
Entry #: 2278089
| Henry is right on about fielders that don't know how to cover a base, whether it be secondbasemen straddling the bag, catchers standing over the plate, and even firstbasemen that get in the way when you're trying to leg out an extra-base hit. But in a coed rec league, I don't know how you're ever going to get away from that, and after fifteen years playing in the league I've just come to accept and expect it.
In every other no-slide league I've played in, and they are out there, they do not allow over-running the bag. You cannot slide, cannot over-run, and simply have to slow up coming into the bag. The way I've understood it, the over-running rule was added to our league as a way to eliminate the quick stop coming into bags that tends to lead to injuries when baserunners come to such an abrupt stop.
I don't know if there's any good solution. As sure as there are people who don't know how to properly field their position on defense, there are going to be just as many that don't know how to properly slide.
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| Jim
July 24, 2007
9:39:20 PM
Entry #: 2280183
| Reply from Henry Pienkos of the Bisons:
Your comment about the combined "no slide" AND "no overrun" rules make sense. If we are really interested in preventing injuries, we need to reduce the chances of a runner going full speed into a base and the "no overrun" rule does that.
I think the "no overrun" rule is a minor change/addition to the "no slide" rule, is easily understood, and is something we should consider implementing.
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| jimjr08
July 25, 2007
9:21:17 AM
Entry #: 2280725
| Reply from Rich Niederwerfer of E Coli:
Wow, I opened a Pandora’s box with my brother's thoughts and ideas. Personally I see both sides of the issue. Many of E Coli's players like CPTV don't know how to slide and would get hurt, or are too old (we remember how, but the body because of age and injuries won't let us.) I put myself in the latter category. This league was initially formed to be casual and fun by a few players from other leagues that were becoming too competitive, aggressive, and not enjoyable anymore. Some of the new teams and new players don't understand that. The rules were meant to be flexible, hopefully cut down on injuries and even the playing field a little so players of all levels of experience and ability could coexist on the field at the same time. In some ways I think we've gotten away from that. Maybe some sort of sliding should be allowed (one should be allowed to over-run the base also at his/her choice.) Yes some people stand atop or block second base, yes some umps never call their own players out, but nothing and no one is perfect. I don't think there is any easy/quick solution to this.
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| Chris
July 30, 2007
12:08:02 AM
Entry #: 2289001
| Chris from the Arch: Bascially the jist of what I see here is some people who have played a lot of baseball think no sliding is dangerous but they aren't taking into account that this is a league made up of probably over 50% of players who have NOT played a lot of baseball. Between this league and another no-slide league I played in (again, yes there are many of them out there) I have, in 12 years, NEVER seen 1 person seriously hurt from the NO-slide version. If you're agrueing too much over it then you're taking it too seriously. Is it frustrating at times for those of us who grew up sliding? Yes, I learned how to slide and also learned how to cover a base witrhout gettig my ankle spiked but a lot of all of our teams players haven't. Still it all goes to what is this league and this league is a co-ed, no experience required, fun league. If you want to slide there's plenty of men's leagues out there for you...go for it.
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| pat
August 9, 2007
1:31:56 PM
Entry #: 2308849
| Chris, what are you talking about? You can barely catch a pop up. lol.
I would love to see sliding allowed. I had a collision just last week that wouldve been avoided by sliding. And it was nobodys fault. Ball was hit to me at short, runner on first, the 2nd baseman didnt cover so i ran for the bag. we both got there at the same time and BOOM.
In hindsight, i guess maybe i shouldve slid with the ball.
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