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TOPIC: Softball- Softball bat issues |
| hardlinedrives
February 3, 2008
9:35:03 AM
Entry #: 2579969
| This is just a bit of venting about the way things are versus the way I wish things were......
It has become apparent to me that modifying softball bats has become pervasive not only in the High Desert, but also in the softball community at large. I will not describe the popular processes here, because I do not want to further tempt those who do not know about, or have resisted the urge thus far.
Modifying your bat "because the other team is" (usually a team full of less than desirable individuals) doing it is one of reasons I often hear bandied about. " Another reason I have heard is "we are protecting our pitcher".
Folks, this is dangerous and wrong. It is certainly not the reason I started playing softball, I started playing to have fun. It is also illegal. If someone is injured by a modified bat, the owner and the hitter are both legally liable all the way up to a charge of wrongful death. Besides, it is the person swinging the bat and the time and practice put in that enables them to get on base.
If you are using, have used, or are tempted to use a "juiced bat" please rethink your course of action. I am not judging you......it's tempting for all of us. But let's think this through. Cheating is like nuclear proliferation......where does it end?
As far as how the city of Victorville should handle it- they should probably spring for the same bat testing equipment used at regionals and nationals and conduct random testing. The bat companies are pursuing legal action against many bat doctors and customers. Testing bats is the only way to curb this cancer on our otherwise great sport.
Do you still totally love Barry Bonds? Sammy Sosa? Mark Macguire? Or has the cheating taken some of the fun out of it for you?
"An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind"
-Gahndi
"Win with honor, lose with dignity."
-character counts
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| yssup
February 3, 2008
12:50:07 PM
Entry #: 2580183
| if someone hits a HR we can then saw the bat in half to see if its juiced....lol
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| allh8rsstepoff
February 3, 2008
7:33:27 PM
Entry #: 2580555
| cheating in slow pitch mens softball is weak. Ive only played in about nine games of slow pitch softball and i feel like all us has beens take it to serious. i mean keeping stats corking bats give it up if ur that good go play for the maverics other wise dont think ur good cause its slow pitch softball. i mean im 3 for 5 with 2 walks and my only 2 outs r home runs and i feel like my team is mad at me on those outs when they should be happy im hitting the ball good. its all for fun has beens.
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| allh8rsstepoff
February 3, 2008
7:37:28 PM
Entry #: 2580567
| P.S. IVE NEVER HAD TO KEEP THE BALL IN THE YARD I JUST TRY TO HIT THE BALL HARD EVERY TIME.
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| yssup
February 3, 2008
8:19:13 PM
Entry #: 2580660
| and you replyed to this post why?
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| hardlinedrives
February 4, 2008
5:41:57 AM
Entry #: 2580893
| The different divisions are meant to allow for less serious and more serious players to all have fun playing softball. That's why we have Rec, Lower, Middle, Upper, etc. divisions (even though they are all rolled into one for those of us crazy enough to play winter ball). Actually, many of us who take it a bit more "seriously" are having fun and even getting exercise too. I suppose you could always take the mindset that you shouldn't work too hard at anything, and anyone who does should be called names. Putting a lot of time into things like recreation, your job, or spelling is obviously such a waste of time, right?
My point remains. This is a great game at any level. Cheating lessens it for players of every level.
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| allh8rsstepoff
February 4, 2008
10:15:13 AM
Entry #: 2581310
| yssup i can reply to what ever i want
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| allh8rsstepoff
February 4, 2008
10:24:46 AM
Entry #: 2581327
| it was a drunk reply and i was just saying its a joke if u have to cheat in slow pitch softball. i take it serious but all in all its not that serious its for fun. im out to win just as much as the next guy however some of it is just over the top for me. people trying to do to much when a ball is lobbed to you with four outfielders. if i was off the subject oh well mind ur own and dont worry about my spelling and dont take it to serious out there cause there r no scouts.
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| allh8rsstepoff
February 4, 2008
10:29:39 AM
Entry #: 2581339
| ur reply was worse then mine saying lets cut the bat in half
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| Stones
February 4, 2008
11:36:55 AM
Entry #: 2581463
| A Gahndi quote... in a Victorville sports softball post... Come on guys, lets remember it's still only a game. What's next? The "I Have A Dream" speech of levelling the playing field? Yeah, I'm all for keeping things fair, but again let's remember...this is just a GAME.
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| yssup
February 4, 2008
3:22:30 PM
Entry #: 2581962
| i was joking about cuttting it in half sorry i didn't mean to get you all bent over my post.
i do have a bat question. i keep hearing about the need to break in a bat? isn't it more like the owwner needs to get used to it. does the bat itself perform better after its used some compared to a new one? if so what changes with bat.
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| allh8rsstepoff
February 4, 2008
4:37:01 PM
Entry #: 2582138
| you would be lucky to get even a dog to bend over your post if your lucky he ight urinate on it>
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| hardlinedrives
February 4, 2008
10:49:45 PM
Entry #: 2582663
| I'm not that concerned about leveling the playing field for myself or my team. We'll be fine. I'm more concerned for that first timer out to have fun, or that father and son getting that last season in together. Yes, I know it is a sport and is therefore inherently risky. I just don't believe cheating increases the fun factor, in this case it makes it dangerous, and yes if you cheat you are taking it too seriously and should probably re-evaluate what you are doing it for.
Additionally, or rather unfortunately, there are teams who attempt to hurt people intentionally, to send a "message" of how "manly" they are. Often these guys are the same guys who cheat. Do the math. How can this be necessary or good? That's not cool. But I would still argue not to use illegally modified bats against them because it makes you like them. If you're not careful, you might become them. Plus, balls go middle sometimes when you are just trying not to get out.
So I guess I do "have a dream". That people would man up and play with stock bats and let their skills do the talking. Put the bat doctors out of business.
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| hardlinedrives
February 4, 2008
11:00:06 PM
Entry #: 2582665
| yssup- Oh yeah, most bats heat up as they wear out. Generally speaking, a bat should be at it's best right before it wears out and breaks.
The best way to break in a bat is to just take lots of BP with it. That way you and the bat are in good shape at the same time. You can also rotate the bat so it loosens up as you hit it. You'll see guys who bang their new bats against trees, etc., that is technically illegal too, but as you can see, there are unfortunately a lot of people who are ignorant or just don't care.
The most durable bat I have found is the ASA Worth PST Search and Destroy w/ the 2 year warranty (you'll be hard pressed to break in within the warranty though I've seen it done. The least durable (but it sure hits bombs out of the wrapper) is the Demarini Evo Ax (my last one lasted a round of BP and a half of a game. Easton's line is very durable but I don't like to use them in games because they seem to be the most commonly modified bat and I'd rather people know it was me and not a illegally modified bat. My next bat will be a Demarini Juggernaught.
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| LTD35
February 5, 2008
7:56:20 AM
Entry #: 2583030
| Today’s bats are dangerous too. The technology is getting better and better. Players trying to hit the middle needs to rethink that they are doing and the possible outcome because of their actions. Below is an example of what a non-juiced bat can do:
During game play at Houston Sportsplex the field umpire was at second base. The pitcher pitched the ball; the batter hit a line drive up the middle. The pitcher wasn’t able to stop the ball. The ball headed straight for the umpire. The umpire was hit in the head and dropped. He was rushed to the hospital. After about a week or so in a coma, he died from head injuries caused by being hit in the head.
The bat being used was looked at and it was determined that is WAS a legal bat. This happened at the end of the year and he passed in 01/05/08.
Just imagine what a juiced bat can do.
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| RecStaff
February 5, 2008
9:17:59 AM
Entry #: 2583176
| My biggest issue is with our lower leagues. Bats should not be hot, and I really doubt even some of the high tech "legal" bats belong in a lower rec league. Banning is tying something this season that we are monitoring, in their leagues (I don't think they have too many) the city is supplying the bats.
Right now about 85 percent of our teams register as lower teams. That's not right. We have tried to make incentives to have teams register as middle and upper teams, but most teams still go with lower. Perhaps supplying the bats in the lower leagues will force teams to "move up" What do you think?
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| evadellpower
February 5, 2008
10:45:29 AM
Entry #: 2583312
| Anything to make the game safer for the recreation type player. I think its funny to see so many tournament players playing in the lower division leagues. I've recently seen an upper division player hit three homeruns in a lower type league, then when the pitcher walked the player his fourth at bat the entire team started to go middle to send a message. It's nice to know that I play in a city with so many individuals of high character. I have a dream that one day the softball players of Victorville will be judged by the content of their character, not by the ability of their bat doctor.
"There must be steroids in macoroni"
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| hardlinedrives
February 5, 2008
3:16:36 PM
Entry #: 2583976
| It's nice to get the intellectuals finally responding. I like the city issued and monitored bat ideas, especially in lower, and even in middle/upper as long as they are various weights and the same bat, so we can practice at home with our own.
Other ideas.......how about a premier division, titled "upper" not upper middle w/ a bit more prestige. Maybe donated softball gear could sweeten the prize packages as an incentive. In some leagues they chalk a rectangular box for the pitcher, and a shot through the middle is an automatic out. I think that would disturb the flow of the game and goof up a lot of cool defensive plays though. You could require pitchers to wear face masks/helmets. lol.
Seriously though, you are not going to change the people who just don't care, so what really needs to be done is test/monitor/police the juiced bats in some way, shape or form. They do it at the big national tourneys. Either that or I guess the city supplied bat idea might work. I would miss the option of using a bat of my preference though.
Evadellpower, as usual, you are passing me up. Your "I have a dream" speech is better than mine.
Mostly though, I'd like it to become really unpopular to use a juiced bat, so that no one would want anyone to even SUSPECT that they would CONSIDER doing it. Right now, it's really blatant. Some guys don't even care if you know they are cheating, like it makes them better in some way. If you were to sit by the dugout and listen to the conversations of some of the aforementioned teams/players, you would hear them talking about it.
What is accepted socially is really up to the players and not the league. Perhaps the league should do something regarding this issue, but whether shaving/cheating/juicing is frowned upon is really up to the players. So let's start cleaning it up out there. Don't accept it on YOUR team. That's the only team you have any influence on anyway.
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| Stones
February 5, 2008
9:18:42 PM
Entry #: 2584661
| Wow, I guess I really underestimated how much people eat, sleep, walk, talk and breathe softball. My comment wasn't directed at making light of the seriousness of cheating or anyone getting hurt. I just think points can be made without bringing in quotes from extremely serious issues such as politics or even religion.
Everyone understands how passionate some of you are about softball but when you start to compare it to the trully serious issues of life by quoting prominent leaders I think it's a bit much. So yeah, I made a smartass remark to lighten things up. Excuse me for not making it as itellectual as some of you may have liked.
By the way, I don't use a juiced bat, not a homerun hitter, don't have a gun for an arm, don't have blazing speed, but I give all my effort all the time. The one thing that I do have is great fun playing the sport because it's a great distraction to my everyday life. Oh yeah, I don't need to quote anyone for that... I hope that's intellectual enough for some of you to understand my point.
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| hardlinedrives
February 6, 2008
7:09:15 AM
Entry #: 2585053
| Ok, ok, I get it. You're not a fan of the inspirational quote. At least I didn't demonize the opposition by comparing them to genocidal maniacs through history. lol. I certainlly didn't mean to offend anyone, but I think integrity is still important even in something as trivial as rec. sports. Little things add up to big things.
How's this:
-people cheat
-that's not a good reason to cheat too
-if people use that reason, soon everyone is cheating
-everyone deals with the consequences and it all goes downhill
Not as succinct as the quote, but oh well.
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| Stones
February 6, 2008
8:10:43 AM
Entry #: 2585150
| Perfect! I agree 100%. In fact, how's this... If and when someone is caught with a juiced bat, the ump should make a note of this and have the cheating player finish out the rest of the season using a wooden bat. I bet they would think twice about continuing to cheat. And if they do, repeat offenders should just not be allowed to continue playing in this league. Safety is and should be the number 1 priority. Hardlinedrives, You da man and no hard feelings buddy.
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| RecStaff
February 6, 2008
9:12:33 AM
Entry #: 2585272
| The character issue is the toughest with which to deal. We are trying things that we hope will make those players "go away." For example, some people think that it's OK to cuss out an ump, City Official, or even a SCMAF official, for ironically, getting kicked out of a game for cussing at the ump. I'm prefectly happy having those kind of players think that they should go somewhere else because we "don't have our s___ together."
Our biggest complainers are usually people who have been ejected from games. These are usually people who don't handle adversity well, and, as a result, have many other issues. Also, they usually cannot control their language. Our umps are not paid well enough to constantly deal with this type of person.
To sum up, if you can't control your language, you're out of control and you can't play with us. We are "beefing up" our character rules to eliminate repeat offenders more quickly. So if you like someone who can get out of control, clue him/her in.
That being said, people who have legitimate concerns always have our ears and we encourage emails and phone calls.
This is the kind of thread that is helpful and appreciated on the message board.
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| RecStaff
February 6, 2008
9:28:50 AM
Entry #: 2585304
| After reading my post I want to remind that I am mainly referring to the "repeat offenders." We can understand an occasional "bad night." That's why we have red cards and ejections. They are "gentle" reminders that you should not and cannot act a fool in public.
20 years ago, I got ejected from a baseball game for telling the umpire he had stupid ears. My friends still remind of this every time we get together to play. It was the first game of a double header. I was the lead off batter for the second game and went to the plate with athletic tape across my mouth.
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| RecStaff
February 6, 2008
9:54:38 AM
Entry #: 2585355
| Should you find yourself the victim of other people's bitterness, ignorance, smallness or insecurities; Remember, things could be worse. You could be one of them!
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| evadellpower
February 6, 2008
11:03:08 AM
Entry #: 2585524
| well said! and probably enough said.
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| LTD35
February 6, 2008
11:23:30 AM
Entry #: 2585572
| If someone is caught using a "juiced" bat, that player OR/AND the player who owns the bat should be injected immediately and banned for LIFE. Players know the rules and know what a "juiced" bat can do, thus thats why they "juiced" it.
As for geting in an umps face or cursing them, maybe a second chance is the way to go. People do have bad days and sometimes lose their minds for a short period of time.
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| RecStaff
February 6, 2008
1:32:28 PM
Entry #: 2585852
| Did anyone else see the Mythbusters episode where they tested a corked wood bat and found that it actually deadened the bat and the ball didn't fly as far?
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| evadellpower
February 6, 2008
4:43:12 PM
Entry #: 2586293
| tell that to Sammy Sosa and the hall of fame numbers he has using one, oops I forgot he didn't mean to use his batting practice bat.
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| going ya ya
February 13, 2008
2:27:18 PM
Entry #: 2598216
| juiced bats are fun to usenot in rec tho i use mine in tournament ball only and theres nothing wrong with hitting ur bat against a tree are pole are using a mallet it just breaks in faster and easton is the best modified or not
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| yssup
February 13, 2008
4:34:19 PM
Entry #: 2598611
| sure you do
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| going ya ya
February 13, 2008
5:17:43 PM
Entry #: 2598690
| i do so does anyone need a player for the 23rd
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| hardlinedrives
February 14, 2008
4:19:40 PM
Entry #: 2600856
| excerpted from ASA's site:
For Immediate Release
Oklahoma City, OK—The Amateur Softball Association (“ASA”) is pleased to report that the
U.S. District Court for Western Oklahoma has awarded ASA $100,000 in damages and
attorney’s fees totaling approximately $12,000 against the first two defendants in the
Association’s ongoing attempts to rid the game of softball of illegal equipment including
painting and other techniques used to alter bats.
In addition to the monetary damages awarded above, the Court entered an injunction against the defendants and ordered the defendants to do the following:
• To provide the names and addresses of all customers as well as suppliers of goods and
services who enabled the defendants to perform the acts giving rise to the lawsuit; and
• To provide the names and addresses of any person or entity that supplied the defendants
with any decals bearing ASA or Rawlings’s trademarks. “While we are pleased with the Court’s decision and feel that our legal position has been firmly established ASA’s work is far from over”, commented ASA’s Executive Director, Ron Radigonda. “We have already identified our next round of defendants and plan to aggressively pursue them,” added Radigonda.
The ASA has established a method for individuals who might be concerned with their past activities. Such individuals can e-mail the ASA and begin settlement discussions that may keep
them from being sued in the future provided they agree to cooperate with the ASA. If a bat doctor would like to turn themselves in, we encourage them to send an e-mail to info@softball.org with the subject line of Bat Settlement Agreement.
If individuals continue to alter bats in any way that contain the ASA’s trademarks, the association will pursue all legal remedies available.
About ASA’s Equipment Testing Program
ASA first adopted a bat performance standard in 2000, relying on a nationwide consensus bat
testing method approved by the American Society of Testing and Materials (“ASTM”). This
initial standard was based primarily on the adult male slow pitch softball player. ASA began
investigating improvements to this standard with field testing in the summer of 2001, primarily
to confirm its application to the youth slow pitch and fast pitch game.
As scientific lab testing and research continued, it was discovered that the performance values of
certain bats tended to increase the more the bat was used. In light of this discovery ASA began
to enforce its 2000 performance standard against these bats, and subsequently “recertified”
several of these bat models after modifications by the manufacturers.
Since that time, “bat doctors” have altered approved bats to enhance their performance and have relabeled unapproved bats to make them appear to be certified by ASA. For more information on equipment matters see the Certified Equipment section of the ASA website,
www.asasoftball.com.
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| hardlinedrives
February 18, 2008
8:58:24 PM
Entry #: 2607755
| It's clear that some of the cheaters intend to keep cheating, no matter the cost. It will be up to the city and their insurance/risk management to either deal with it or look the other way.
If you want to hit a hotter than legal bat and aren't ashamed to do so, why hide it by juicing a legal bat? Just take a stock Ultra II to the plate so everyone will know. Yeah, they'll probably call you out, but at least you are being honest. We can all watch how far the ball goes over the school and be amazed together.
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| evadellpower
February 18, 2008
10:10:52 PM
Entry #: 2607827
| If ur goin post u hav to spel lik this are thay want understand.
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| hardlinedrives
April 7, 2008
2:46:00 AM
Entry #: 2694680
| related post....
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