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TOPIC: pitching |
| fan
May 28, 2008
11:37:38 PM
Entry #: 2769223
| i thought it was a modified league? all i'm seeing is sling shot? what is going on?
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| league member
May 29, 2008
5:20:15 PM
Entry #: 2770223
| i agree. one game is strictly sling and the next game is basically slow pitch. u cant make the rules by which teams are on the field. i dont think the umpires know the rules. they just let whatever go. its gotta be one or the other groove, but something needs to be done.
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| ???
May 29, 2008
8:05:12 PM
Entry #: 2770429
| i thought we were closed pitching ?
open is millcreek right?
someone needs to make a choice
or better yet go play at hess if ya wanna sling
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| A JOKE
May 30, 2008
12:47:59 PM
Entry #: 2771253
| Some one please tell me how Collins is allowed to picth in the B league. This is just a huge joke not to long ago he was considerd a major piture. Also this guy is very ilegal if he is pitching in B then we may as well just throw side arm cus thats what he is. Someone needs to step up and not let this happend.
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| Joker
May 30, 2008
7:50:10 PM
Entry #: 2771817
| PAHHlease. collins is on your mind. listen shrek will walk the bases loaded in many many innings giving you just what you need. so stop the slaughter. if your so worried about him just dig a hole out in front of the mound pre gametime and he's a non issue. but wear a helmet fo show cuzz he has no control. also i remember he has issues between his ears if ya need a seed to plant.
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| ???
May 31, 2008
8:51:02 AM
Entry #: 2772163
| Ok I have to chime in on this subject. I to was under the impression that it was closed pitching but when you show up to watch a couple of games and all in one night I see minnow, eggs, benny, eddie lopez, mikey Q, and aj then something is wrong, but i guess all you had to do was look to see who was the ump you had walt and some other guy who at one point instead of calling a illegal pitch calls time comes up to walt to ask about aj breaking his wrist or some thing and walt just says come on guys play ball. I honestly believe the umpires are to blame even if groove~ or one of the board goes to the umpires and say's hey it's a closed league your still goig to have certain umps who either don't care or are afraid to call an illegal pitch.
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| Hairy Carie
June 1, 2008
9:53:31 AM
Entry #: 2772895
| Hoooly Cow PLAY BALL
none of the above mentioned could break a pane of glass how can you not hit a 30 something mph grapefruit sized ball.
Walt was right just play.besides the A league managers have there head so far up some of the umps rear things will never be equal
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June 1, 2008
10:50:24 PM
Entry #: 2773648
| minnow is legal. he never gets banged at nationals and everyone gets banged there.
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| Observer
June 2, 2008
2:29:41 AM
Entry #: 2773827
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Is Minnow legal in a 'closed' league that claims to want the ASA to enforce a 'bowling motion' according to their modified softball rules?
Good question.
Watch his elbow on some pitches and his hips (not his waistline) on most all of his pitches.
Does he snap or bowl?
It actually looks similar to Krysiak's delivery, which was banned from the league if I remember correctly.
Bottom line:
If you're going to go all the way in banning 'illegal' pitchers and want a hitters' league - you can't go half way in the enforcement of your rules.
-an observer who prefers 'open' pitching
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June 2, 2008
2:11:07 PM
Entry #: 2774539
| asa nationals is as strict as it gets with closed pitching. minno throws there every year and never has a problem. if u want to get technical watch nick anderson's mechanics. no one says anything about him bc he throws slower.
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| Adam
June 2, 2008
4:58:34 PM
Entry #: 2774892
| here is link to help everyone idenitfy illegal and legal pitching. and remind your umpires at the begin of the game we are a closed pitching league!
http://www.westernareaasaofpa.com/Documents/ASA%2010%20MAN%20MODIFIED%20SOFTBALL%20PITCHING%20RULES.pdf
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| WOW
June 3, 2008
12:22:15 PM
Entry #: 2776084
| All i know you people are just scared of fast pitching... As long as your square when you come threw its legal... jeeeeez... If you want to say illegal then everyone in the legal is illegal everyone turns there body in the league...
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| Dewey
June 3, 2008
1:21:57 PM
Entry #: 2776218
| Minnow has a legal version and a sling version.
Anderson is the same
both these guys know how to walk that line pretty close. These are the hardest guys to call illegal if your an ump because it could vary pitch to pitch.
I talked to Walt before our game yesterday, he told me the managers of a game last week agreed to let pitchers throw sling. He told me he DID NOT know they werent allowed to do that.
Anyway, it is now being explained to umps that under no circumstances can people slingshot in the league.
It's still the toughest call an ump has to make...which is why I like the sling rules because umps dont have to make that decision anymore.
FYI....is a pitcher is throwing a "rise" ball....he is outside of his wrist....thats the mechanics of a riseball.
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| Eggs
June 3, 2008
2:53:45 PM
Entry #: 2776384
| Since you don't like me, i will interject. Nick Anderson is illegal without a doubt. But in the event to even things out against Bonnell's i am sure you and the league will just ignore this. Remember it isn't about what anyone does, just the Bonnell players. Congrats on getting away with this one.
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| Gratefull Person
June 3, 2008
6:18:36 PM
Entry #: 2776774
| Thank you so much mr rules guy.
now we wont have any of those oh so competitive games of.
20-12
28-19
24-18
etc
instead it will be 44-39
40-35
30pack-6pack
my god are you kidding me. look at the scores you had in the first 4-5 games. that is a damn joke.
in both a+b .christ just throw them all in one group. and hack away. god forbid play defense.
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| observer
June 3, 2008
9:24:45 PM
Entry #: 2777054
| actually it is possible to throw a riseball with the ball inside the wrist. just look at the link that adam put on here and it is all explained. and the turning part is also explained. that it is allowed as long as the shoulders and hips are square at release.
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| Dewey
June 3, 2008
9:26:25 PM
Entry #: 2777057
| Thanks for the congrats, I will try not to take offense and start a riot.
I have watched Nick pitch for two years, you are not far off base..I have seen him open some up....even in the middle of the game. Menale is the same way, if he gets hit a bit..he will open it up as well.
These two guys are hard to call illegal because they both will throw enough legal pitches to make them not worry about it.
As for those scores, that is the result of closed pitching and stacked lineups.
The best lineups in the city are in the slowest pitching league....end result...a lot of offense.
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| Finish Groundskeeper
June 3, 2008
10:20:49 PM
Entry #: 2777138
| I think you have buried Ken enuff. we will plant the grass seed very soon. F anderson. >aka slacker
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| Eggs
June 4, 2008
7:20:45 AM
Entry #: 2777527
| once again you find away to be a saint dewey. he is illegal. menale has pitched in national tournies. you can't possibly defend that.
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| CLOWN
June 4, 2008
9:34:23 AM
Entry #: 2777655
| best lineups in the city, Dewey who are you kidding!! You love yourself way too much
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| Lenscrafters
June 4, 2008
11:05:45 AM
Entry #: 2777836
| Eggs, weren't you supposed to get you eyes checked?
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| Eggs
June 4, 2008
12:48:27 PM
Entry #: 2778033
| no, I know what I saw.
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| Dewey
June 4, 2008
2:22:12 PM
Entry #: 2778242
| I dont have to defend it, if you read what I posted again.......he has a legal version and sometimes he opens it up.
When Minnow pitches at a State or National tournament, he pitches legal.
As for clown (way to use a real name buddy), if you honestly are saying the fastpitch lineups are better than the HC lineups...you are drunk
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| animal
June 4, 2008
2:34:51 PM
Entry #: 2778282
| u guy all need to leave collins alone if you cant a ball the size of a grape fruit u should be playing grow up and play ball. al you guys want to do is complain
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| Player
June 4, 2008
2:48:20 PM
Entry #: 2778310
| Ha so arent we all grown men? Or no..So were arguing about softball haha what a joke! Its softball and its slow and why are u scared of a sling who cares if it is. Go play glenwood and hit some real heat chumps.
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| animal hater
June 4, 2008
2:55:39 PM
Entry #: 2778323
| calm down dunkle. everybody knows your a bum anyway. and as for animal...spell check and grammar lessons! wow! lay off collins? why? he is playing in a B league! pitching at that! he's washed up!
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| Player
June 4, 2008
3:07:21 PM
Entry #: 2778347
| Collins Washed Up? He pitched one game ya haters and the game took about 45 min with him mowing ppl down. Besides that he plays 1st base so get off his back.
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June 4, 2008
5:09:04 PM
Entry #: 2778639
| Um Do you dopes who are posting childish type comments relize how stupid you are ? just sit and read some of this crap. did you stay in one class all day in school thus making you special?
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| the real player
June 4, 2008
10:27:24 PM
Entry #: 2779072
| yup mowing people down? in a B league. a league with a couple glorified slow pitch teams in it. no offense to those teams. just to him for thinking he's good picking on them. as said in a couple earlier posts...play in the league you belong in bum! your washed up! thats why your not on any of those rosters and haven't been for a few years. i'm glad your still playing but quit pitching in a league you don't belong in!
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| benson
June 4, 2008
10:32:45 PM
Entry #: 2779082
| wow. alot of people picking on collins. what up with that?
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| Novel
June 5, 2008
10:31:49 AM
Entry #: 2779619
| The question of allowing the A division to use 9 man pitching rules has come up the last several years at the league meetings in the spring. After discussing the idea it usually boils down to 4 maybe 5 teams that want to change; Bonnells, D&B, Folmars, Hilltop & maybe (I can’t remember) Red Fox. That would mean it would be a 5 team A division where everyone plays each other 4 or 5 times to get a 20 game schedule. Most if not all of the 4 to 5 teams agreed that they would rather play by 10 man rules with more teams to play against rather than playing against the few and be able to use 9 man rules. All of the managers have had a say and voted on the pitching rules over the years. If we open it up you can not force teams to play that style if they don’t have the want or the pitchers to play by 9 man rules. How could teams like McMillens Hilltop and Miller Masonry be forced up to the A league if they didn’t have slingers? This would result in having a 4 to 5 team A division and a 11 to 12 team B division. Talk to your team manager about what is discussed at the meetings and give them suggestions to bring to the meetings. Maybe someone will have an idea that will solve these league problems.
The site that Adam posted was the one that Pesci had provided the league at one of the spring meetings. It is really well done. Sal Guerriero has put together this presentation to show the difference between 9 Man vs. 10 Man ASA Modified Pitching. According to Mr. Guerriero (and it makes sense), a 9 Man style pitcher rotates the humerus (upper arm bone) in a clockwise direction which results in the palm (and ball) being outside the wrist. Check out his pdf link he does a better job at explaining it than I can. The old rule used to be if you got banged it was a ball and the runners advanced and if it happened three times you had to leave the mound, this should apply this season. At this point it is not a matter of preference or if someone is scared, it is about adhering to an agreement of rules that were voted on by ALL of the teams managers or representatives. Dewey you are correct I don’t envy the umpires having to make these distinctions but that’s why they get paid roughly a half a tank of gas per game. The toughest part will be on the team or the pitcher that gets called illegal NOT to give the ump a hard time but instead ask what he is doing wrong and then try to correct it. They will try their best and we expect them to call all pitchers equally and we should; to quote Groove “win with class, lose with dignity and respect the game”. Good luck to all.
Benes
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| Dewey
June 5, 2008
3:03:56 PM
Entry #: 2780073
| Well, you hit it right on all accounts.
That is exactly what happens at the meetings...we all agree to keep it closed to keep the A league stronger in number of teams.
The result is a ton of runs being scored because the HC A division is loaded with the city's best hitters.
And you are right..its probably not fair to force some of the teams to play slingshot when they have no desire to do so.
If I had my druthers, I would suggest that people start learning to slingshot....its not as hard as people think. Just takes some time.
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| Player
June 5, 2008
4:16:49 PM
Entry #: 2780237
| Boys like i Said come see come real heat in the glenwood league and quit complaining. Softball is slow and weak and always will be
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| observer
June 5, 2008
5:40:31 PM
Entry #: 2780402
| player you still suck! way to run down the fly balls last night! might as well stick with baseball cuz you suck at softball! as for the sling rule...i was at the meeting and we didn't vote on it we were told that it was going to be modified. oh well. best put by Walt "it's modified son hit the damn ball!" its still coming underhand.
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| ADAM
June 6, 2008
10:22:06 AM
Entry #: 2781291
| The rule is the same as last yr acording to the by-laws .When called for illegal pitch 3 times in a game the pitcher must leave the mound for the rest of the game.
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| !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 6, 2008
4:08:00 PM
Entry #: 2781873
| your still going to run into the same problem as every year certain umps will call a pitcher and then the next 2 games a different set of umps will let it go either because they don't care or they don't know
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| re:!!!!!!!!!!!
June 6, 2008
5:45:19 PM
Entry #: 2782002
| you stupid ass. all umps know who is legal.
and who is not.
its the managers in the A league that suck up just enough to get through/ and play them.
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| Softball21
June 8, 2008
9:59:28 PM
Entry #: 2783735
| It is the Harborcreek Modified Softball League not the Harborcreek Open Softball League. If you are going to have rules then enforce them.
As to the high scores, it is the bats. The technology has progressed too fast, anyone can hit a home run now. A sure sign of a "juiced" bat is when the entire team uses the same one.
I have been in the league for 15 years and remember when there were three divisions. The A or "sling shot" division only had 5 teams and didn't last very long.
As to the poster who wanted pitchers to learn to sling shot, why learn to be illegal when you are already legal. If you can't pitch legally, don't pitch.
FYI, our team has faced both Menale and Anderson and they both were legal 95% of the time.
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June 9, 2008
7:47:00 AM
Entry #: 2784014
| i should bring back krysiak to pitch too. if anderson is legal so is he along with eddie lopez.
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| Groove`
June 9, 2008
10:32:45 AM
Entry #: 2784255
| OPEN IT UP FOR 2ND HALF OF SEASON FOR 'A' LEAGUE????
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| Dewey
June 9, 2008
11:51:46 AM
Entry #: 2784400
| I would be all for it as long as every team voted for it.
Would hate to see a team that had no intentions of playing slingshot be forced into it mid-season.
Otherwise, its just a matter of Anderson, Menale, Lopez, etc....all start throwing 10-man style
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| Curuois
June 9, 2008
3:24:25 PM
Entry #: 2784878
| How can you open up the pitching in the second half when it's never been closed to start with?
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| Hippocrit
June 9, 2008
3:57:19 PM
Entry #: 2784959
| Dewey you voted for closed pitching so quit being.......never mind not worth it
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| softball21
June 9, 2008
6:43:49 PM
Entry #: 2785328
| If you are going to open it up for the second half for A, then I propose that three balls equal a walk, as long as you're going change the rules mid-season why not change them all.
Seriously, if scoring is too high, put a limit on home runs, two per team, anything after that is an out.
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| fastpitch rules
June 9, 2008
7:57:12 PM
Entry #: 2785448
| yep i say change now heck change again next week and then the next. and if one teams has 2 guys that can sling then another A team can borrow one from a team they choose from a sweaty hat and go for a game. also if you need a game for states just stage a game at another field that takes maybe 5 or 10 minutes
YEP INTEGRETY GUYS YOU HAVE IT ALL WITH THAT...
RIGHT "MR" GO BY ALL RULES CEPT FOR NOW?
CMON ONE OF MY GUYS IS BURNED OUT LETS CHANGE?
who cares how i spelled integrety you know exactly what im talkin bout
These c"borcreekers will drink the coolaid
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| Dewey
June 10, 2008
12:40:33 AM
Entry #: 2785863
| Hippocrit
Wrong again buddy. At the vote in 2007, I freaking stood there and tried to convince teams that were anti-slingshot how it wouldnt be that hard to learn how to slingshot. My speech was mostly about how it used to be the best hitters played fastpitch but now were in HC, therefore the need for better pitching.
I gave examples about how guys like A.J., Eggs, Dustin, and even myself had all tried to learn it and took bumps along the way. And it turned out pretty good for A.J., Eggs, and even Benny O. (not so much for me)
However, the vote (from the league) went for closed because in the end, that was the way to keep the A division strong in numbers.
I voted for open pitching and gave a three minute speech why it would be best for our league.
As for this year, I was only at one meeting and there was no vote conducted at that meeting. I assume it was conducted at a meeting I was not at.
Point being...leave my name out of your fairytale. And why not post your own name if you have something important to say?
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| Groove`
June 10, 2008
11:42:38 AM
Entry #: 2786407
| ok relax open pitching ain't gonna happen,correction shouldn't be happening.What there looking at is how square your hips are on the release and the position of your wrist when you release.Bob Horn got called for crossing legs.Remind umps it is a closed league.
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| UNBEATABLE
June 17, 2008
10:39:42 AM
Entry #: 2795465
| Will everyone please quit complaining about collins pitching he pitched one game. apparently crying doesnt help because no one can still beat them they are a solid young team that knos how to listen that knows how tto listen to an awsome coach wheather it be at the plate or in the feild aint nobody beating them so stfu about collins and take a look at how well a PICK UP team is playing together giv shoe some credit bc hes done good
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| YOU WILL LOSE
June 17, 2008
12:14:07 PM
Entry #: 2795640
| Your right a solid YOUNG team who scored 5 unearned runs in the first and is still tied 6-6in the bottom of the 7th.It's a long season,hell good chance allotta is going to give you a battle tonite.Hats off to shoe he has done a heck of a job.Don't worry about the foot steps you here behind you,remember your unbeatable?
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| Player
June 17, 2008
12:25:50 PM
Entry #: 2795658
| What do you mean PICK UP team? Do all other teams have some type of draft or something? Aren't all teams PICK UP teams? Don't get too cocky, there hasn't been a "B" league team that went undefeated in league play since I can remember. In fact, other than maybe Bonnells, there hasn't been anyone that's gone undefeated in league play for a long time.
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| player
June 18, 2008
11:40:09 AM
Entry #: 2797152
| they still stink! undefeated in a c & d league...what an accomplishment. props to shoe and the boyz. bring your team to some tourney play and see what your made of! you probably couldn't beat the last place team in your upper division. tourney july 12-13 in hermatige. lets see what you got?
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| Eggs
June 19, 2008
11:02:59 AM
Entry #: 2798684
| Like I said, it would be a double standard for the Bonnell pitcher and the rest of the league. Game was on the line against folmar's(which is embarassing enough) and the ump decides to call an illeagl pitch for being outside the wrist. Yet Anderson doesn't get called once. Thanks Grovie for enforcing this.
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| A" player
June 19, 2008
1:34:09 PM
Entry #: 2798939
| if you don't like the rules, don't come back next yr. the world will not end cuz bonnells isn't playing in harborcreek. so go complain somewhere else about how unfair you are treated.
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| Eggs
June 23, 2008
12:32:44 PM
Entry #: 2803341
| " a player. another name unsigned. probably one of Bonnell's friends or a coward. typical, anyways the rules should be the same for everyone, not to give the other teams a chance to win. I like fairness sorry if that is too much too ask for.
BFF
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| Dewey
June 23, 2008
4:15:32 PM
Entry #: 2803747
| BFF? Is that best friend forever?
Unless umps are all on the same page, this will always be a problem. There are umps who only look for the ball being outside of the wrist, only look for the crossover, only look for the hips to be square on release, etc....
Since many of the guys throwing in this league walk the fine line, its hard for umps. It's pretty much the same as leaving early from first base. Sometimes they see it, sometimes they dont. Only with pitching, it has a lot more details an ump much watch for.
So if a guy like Menale, Anderson, Orengia opens up slighty at the top...an ump may or may not see it.
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