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TOPIC: gettin tossed |
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| Keepin it real
June 16, 2009
11:30:29 AM
Entry #: 3188738
| The indy league rule that you get a one game suspension after being tossed is b.s. I mean isn't that the point of being tossed, you can't play that game anymore. No this bonehead rule prevents us from being able to argue calls to our content, one of the oldest traditions in baseball. I agree we have to treat are umps with a certain degree of respect, if they feel like we cross that line, toss us, thats fine. I don't mind being tossed its the one game after that is important, one more and your done for the season.
Sometimes you just decide I've had enough from this guy and i want to get tossed, cant't do it. Its competitive nature and this is a competitive league. Cmon these guys are getting PAID its not like there volunteering then it would be a completely different situation.
Another problem you have to worry about is an over zealous, trigger happy ump who tosses too quickly and is looking for a situation to show how powerfull he is.
I propose a 1st toss warning, 2nd offense suspension and 3rd expulsion. This gives us a little bit of lee way and not so worried about argueing a call.
Its important to note that I agree with umps tossing guys for swearing at them calling them names, and situations like that and thats not what i am endorsing hear. The concern I have is if you want to get tossed for just sayin no your wrong, you missed that one real bad. You should be to say these things till you get tossed without worrying about a suspension.
Some times a coach getting tossed can do good things for your team in game. Fire em up a little bit. But you can't cuz it to important not to lose em for the next game so its stops coaches from argueing.
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| Deluxe
June 16, 2009
12:14:47 PM
Entry #: 3188793
| Candler?
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| 7
June 16, 2009
4:52:43 PM
Entry #: 3189133
| Clay??
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| LoudMouth
June 17, 2009
12:30:42 PM
Entry #: 3190066
| I agree with Keepin It Real, I get the idea of discouraging players from arguing, but that's what getting thrown out of the game does. The suspension is just unnecessary. If it is a continual problem where you're getting tossed from 2, 3, 4 games a season then suspensions may be warranted, but the first ejection suspension is ridiculous.
We all know there are some umps who are more likely to throw you out of a game than others, and there have been multiple occasions where umps have thrown players out for unjust reasons. This rule now compounds that error that an umpire may make and hurts the team not only for the rest of the game, but all of the next game as well.
If we are going to have an overzealous rule like this, there should be a very quick and formal appeals process. If the committee determines the ejection was not warranted, then the player should not have to serve a suspension AND the umpire should not be paid for a game. It should go both ways, players make mistakes and so do umps, if your going to go over the top in punishing players, might as well go over the top in punishing umps too. Or just make the player rule more sensible and we don't have to worry about eye-for-an-eye measures of punishing umps.
These guys get paid a lot. I believe it's $75 per game and I can't remember if they get paid mileage or not on top, but considering average games take 2-2.5 hrs, that's $30 an hr. That means if this was their full-time job they would be getting paid about $62K per year. For that kind of money, they better be able to take a little verbal abuse.
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| its not angels in the OF its ninjas in the OF
June 17, 2009
9:52:57 PM
Entry #: 3190725
| Hey keepin it real and loud mouth, and when i say and i really mean same guy, since your writing style is the SAME... I agree, if you're getting tossed for 2 games then umps should get tossed for life for being terrible. and i'm not talking being terrible in just one game, but i mean terrible over, and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, get the point?
good
guess what, you're the one who's outa here!
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| Brill3
June 18, 2009
10:33:32 AM
Entry #: 3191123
| Agreed!!!! But that is not the same person writing, one can spell and one can not. We do have to realize that some umps have a quick trigger and some can take a little more. It is like that all the way up to the bigs. There is one or two umpires that actually choose the game that they work or moreso teams that they will not work. The problem is that these umps hold vendettas (mispelled, I am sure!!) and when they work the playoffs it comes back to hurt the team that they choose not to ump for. The league needs to take a hard look at this. League meeting next year??
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| keeping it real
June 19, 2009
7:04:02 PM
Entry #: 3192815
| Idont really agree with the suspension for getting tossed your first time. but!! this was brought on a couple of years ago when there was a problem. We play by american league rules and if you know the rules alot of these disagreements are not allowed. And it seems to be the same players bitching all the time. All of the good players play the game . There are fewer and fewer umpires this year as you can see some of the games don't have umps. Most of us umps have full time jobs and do it as a hobby. We get 70.00 for a game no milage. its not a full time job or anything. Maybe if I could make 65,000. a year it would be great, maybe you would have a better ump. Its still not as much as a banker!!!!! If only you guys would take a chance to umpire a bunch of games you would know. Sometimes I wonder why Iam out there anyway, it seems like everybody else knows the rules better than you anyway. Mabe we should just go back to the old way and have everybody find thier own umps for each game.
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| Deluxe
June 21, 2009
8:33:35 PM
Entry #: 3194050
| I agree with a lot of what's being said on here. I reffed hockey for 7-8 years, and officiating/umpiring shoes are a completely different pair than the playing ones are. For those who have been an ump or a ref, you realize many situations where want to complain, but also understand that officials are people who make mistakes like everyone else.
But at the same time, officials should also be held accountable for doing a decent job. The reason you're there as an official is because more than anyone, you're supposed to be the one who knows the rules of the game, and how to put yourself in the best position to make the right calls. Like players, you're going to make mistakes, but if you blow a pretty obvious call, you're going to hear about it and probably should if it's really bad.
I realize not everyone has the same exact expectations for officials that I do, but I expect an official to get the easy ones right all the time, and a decent amount of the tough ones right too, that's why you're there.
There are going to be plays where you don't have a perfect view, or the timing of the guy hitting the base and getting tagged are so close, that mistakes will happen. For everybody's sake, as players we need to keep quiet on the really close ones, understanding that those will probably even out or be close to it throughout the course of the game. It's the calls that seem unfair or obviously against how it should be called where we get pissed off during the heat of the game. Those we should be able to speak up a bit (as long as we keep it pretty clean - ballparks are family atmospheres) and not have to worry about being out of the next game because of it.
Officiating sports is a thankless job. Most of the umpires in our league usually do a pretty good job, and we appreciate those guys. We also understand that just like a player, a guy might have an off day for whatever reason. However there are a couple in our league who routinely do a less than acceptable job, and those are the games where it's hard to keep your mouth shut.
Appreciate the discussion, both sides make good points.
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| Brill3
June 22, 2009
10:37:12 AM
Entry #: 3194438
| Yes, sometimes we go overboard. However, there is no reason that an umpire can not explain what he saw and why he made the call the way he did. It doesn't need to automatically become a personal confrontation. When I disagree with an umpire, I let him know. Sometimes verbally and sometimes with a look or other non-verbal communication. The egos of some umpires believing that they never miss a call is just as bad as the lipping off that the players do. Lets remember that umpires are supposed to generally not be noticed in a game. Sometimes it seems as though they want everyone in the stands and in the game to know who is in blue. The Millers have made it clear to each other that we want to work on our disagreements with umps, I hope it shows.
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| Brill15
June 22, 2009
11:16:08 AM
Entry #: 3194502
| I don't think anyone on here is really suggesting that umps be punished for bad calls or suspended or anything like that. I think people are just saying that umps make mistakes, and players make mistakes. We play really hard and in the heat of the moment both players and umps get emotional. I usually feel bad about being heated later and if I believe I said something rude or if I swore at an ump I will apologize to them.
I think we people are saying is that we all make mistakes, and suspending players a game for being kicked out is about at silly as suspending umps for bad calls or throwing people out on questionable situations. We understand its hard to be an ump, and a lot of us have umped several games and know how much it sucks to be yelled at by fans and players. We as players are working to keep our cool and not get out of line, there is no need to suspend us for the times where we lose it.
I understand why the rule was put in place, but it punishes the first time offender equally with the repeat offender, and that is unfair. A graduated system where a player is suspended for a game on his second or third ejection is much more even handed.
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| hornets23
June 22, 2009
11:20:30 AM
Entry #: 3194508
| Here is how the rule reads: For the first ejection there is no further penalty, a second ejection in the same season there will be a four-game suspension that can carry over to the next season if necessary to complete the suspension. Simply put, one time can happen to anyone, after that learn to control your emotions on the field.
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| Brill15
June 22, 2009
11:36:15 AM
Entry #: 3194528
| Oh, well that's not too bad then. I was under the impression the first ejection got you a game suspension. Thanks for clarifying that. I don't necessarily agree with any suspension rule related to ejections but at least that is more fair than I initially thought. PLAY BALL!
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