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TOPIC: Anyone know what is going to happen re: rainouts? |
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| Old Timer
August 8, 2009
12:32:55 AM
Entry #: 3239750
| I would imagine atleast part of the Edge Rocks game got banged tonight.
Does anyone know how Saturday's schedule looks to be panning out if that indeed did take place and a resumption is scheduled.
Also for all the big wigs who run the tourney since there is never any scheduling done in the Tirb or probably basically elsewhere......what happens with games tom. and beyond should things get backed up?
Things like this and advertising for the tourney schedule would be helpful for a lot of casual observers AS WELL AS BUILDING A BIT MORE OF AN INTEREST TO THE CLASS A TOURNEY RATHER THEN 52 PEOPLE SHOWING UP FOR EACH GAME.
Just curious......
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| Old Timer
August 8, 2009
12:37:30 AM
Entry #: 3239751
| On another note.....how is it and who put it togehter where all the loosers from the #1 seed games versus the round one games get shoved down into the same loosers bracket half while all the round one loosers get to go into the top half of the loosers bracket.....
I know in years past the bracket organization has been suspect but is this years the same as last?
I mean seriously four #1 seeds gets byes and the better teams from round one play those four seeds. Then those four loosers in round two of the winners bracket get lumped together in the bottom half of the bracket while all the lower seeds get put together in the top half of the loosers bracket.
???
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| BlueforLife
August 8, 2009
9:06:17 AM
Entry #: 3239824
| There was no rain out last night. They finished the game. Commanding Edge won 5-2
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| Semi Pro
August 8, 2009
9:12:01 AM
Entry #: 3239828
| OT you hit it right on the head. Who put this bracket together, if it's always been done this way then it needs to change. Why does a team that wins their 1st game have to play another team that won their 1st game. While all the losers in round 1 play each other in the losers upper bracket. Where is the reward for winning game 1. You not only use another pitcher, you play the better teams that advanced out of round 1, while the losers play the the teams that lost. It should be set up that the losers from 1 play the losers from round 2. Not only that, the next round in the losers upper bracket advance against each other again having the easier bracket, and why, because they lost their 1st game. While the winners of round 1, losers in round 2 play the tougher schedule. I'm sure nothing can be done this year, but let's get it right for next year!!!
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| Husker
August 8, 2009
10:49:56 AM
Entry #: 3239878
| I believe Chris Johnson & Sean Vellek designed the current format, which changes a little in even years vs odd years, and was approved by the 4 league commissioners.
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| Old Timer
August 8, 2009
12:35:08 PM
Entry #: 3239934
| The games as of around Noon were running less then an hour behind schedule for today.
As far as the bracket set up I found out earlier this AM what was already written here in terms of who put the bracket together...I respect both of those guys.
If the leagues agreed to the bracket then I don't think anyone should complain, however.....
As of now all the #2 seeds advanced except for the Rocks, so those three #2 seeds and Edge a #3 will face off against the four number one seeds.
Right now in the top half of the loosers bracket you have the three #3 teams from each league and The Rocks who were #2 PN.
Then in the bottom half of the loosers bracket you will have four loosers from four #1 seeds, two #2 seeds and one #3 seed.
???????????
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| Cyclone16
August 8, 2009
2:45:58 PM
Entry #: 3239972
| All:
Just a comment or two on the brackets, that yes I put together and then it is collectively agreed upon. My first comment is 10 people will have 10 varying opinions if you look at the entire bracket.
There are several ways to do the brackets and nobody is ever going to be happy except the tournament Champion, I tell the same thing to my team. Are there areas for improvement? Yes, but one change will ultimately affect everything. We look at team match-ups, league match-ups, times teams play (try to not make sure you can go early twice), etc. It's much more than just plopping down a bracket. I certainly try to be as fair as possible without seeking an advantage or disadvantage for any team.
At this point I've heard one good suggestion and that was that I believe the Skyline #1 opens up every year at 10:00 AM on Saturday. I haven't checked but don't think that's accurate because we rotate the #1's. That said I will look into it because if that's the case it's not fair.
If you have suggestions regarding the tournament format, brackets, etc. speak with your commissioner and make suggestions as this individual did. It will be reviewed in October.
It's always easy to be critical, but unless you're personally willing to invest time how about a simple thank you to the men and women who volunteer their time...a few people you should seek out Dennis Schildgren, Andre Lanue, Shawn Vellek, and any person serving concessions or taking tickets. These are all volunteers and given a choice would be happy to be doing something else.
With that said I'd be 100% willing to giving up all the program activities, about 25 hours worth of my time. Please contact your commissioner, the first to do so can take over this beast of a pain in the ass next year. I'm really looking forward to handing it off.
Thanks,
Chris
P.S.: Black/White typing can always come off very harsh and without its correct intent. For the record I am not upset or offended by anyone's bracket suggestions. I would like the best possible tournament as well. In the end it's not always what I feel is the best bracket either, but decisions need to be made and they are done with more than one or two individuals input. If you want to bring a suggestion directly to me I'm a pretty personable guy swing by introduce yourself if we haven't met, I'm happy to talk just don't take the last beer out of our cooler...I'm calling that one now!!!
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| Old Timer
August 8, 2009
7:10:23 PM
Entry #: 3240067
| FYI Cyclcone....I did not know you had put the bracket together until after I made my post and then talked to 10.
Just the same as you stated everyone would probably do it differently and other people where involved (sounds like it was a group decision)
However to me the most important things to consider in putting a bracket together especially for a tourney that does not typicaly draw too many fans would be as follows
1) Arrange the bracket to create the best possible path for the best teams/the teams who earned their league finishes during the regular season.
2) typically the better teams are going to draw more fans form outside the teams outer circles of fans.....meaning to loose perhaps two of the top five teams or so after the first weekend probably won't bode well for attendance.
Then again it is a simple double elim so if you loose two then you are done so it is the same for everyone.
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| Semi Pro
August 8, 2009
8:06:42 PM
Entry #: 3240087
| I appreciate all the hard work going into putting on the State Tourney and coming up with a bracket. I was just surprised to see the bracket the way it was set up. In every 12 team double elimination bracket I've seen, the 4 losers from round 1 always play the 4 losers from round 2. It rewards the teams who won a game in round one. Again this is just one persons opinion. The bottom line is you have to beat whoever you play to be the champion. Best of luck to all the teaams.
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| Cuddys Buddy
August 9, 2009
2:33:24 PM
Entry #: 3240404
| Simple solution. Either expand to 16 teams or reduce to 8.
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| Husker
August 9, 2009
4:40:59 PM
Entry #: 3240464
| You are 100% correct....going to 8 would be my choice.
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| Hurto
August 9, 2009
6:46:57 PM
Entry #: 3240519
| OT-
It funny you notice the "kink" in the bracket this year when your team got the #1 seed out of the Riverview. Did this come up last year?? Bottom line is the #1 seed is rewarded by their #1 pitcher vs the opposing teams #2 or #3.
I love the tournament set up.....Just win and win and win and win. Your squad will be fine.....Plus it's more fun coming from the "winners challenged bracket" - sorry I am a special education teacher.
See everyone next year.....if my wife and daughters let me!!
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| Old Timer
August 10, 2009
1:04:27 AM
Entry #: 3240778
| To Pub/Hurto: you guys always compete to say the least I have nothing bad to say about your club or the Park National.
Peaaaace out.
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| tall & lanky
August 10, 2009
11:09:53 AM
Entry #: 3241160
| I agree with Hurto - love the tournament. Thanks to, Velleck, Mary, League commissioners, field maintenance crew and Chris. Your hard work does not go un noticed and I apprecaite all the time you put in prior to and during the State Tourney.
Good luck to all remaining teams.
see you fellas next May.
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| Cuddys Buddy
August 10, 2009
11:24:07 PM
Entry #: 3242055
| Field maintenance crew? Hopefully they at least drag the infield for the State Tournament games at Midway. During the St. Paul League playoffs, they didn't even bother to drag between games. For the amount of $$$ it costs to rent Midway, they should at least drag the gosh darn infield.
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| ustbaseball21
August 10, 2009
11:27:33 PM
Entry #: 3242057
| the field crew at Dunning was not only waiting out our 3 tornado sirens at 10 pm on Saturday, but working until at least 1 in the morning after the game. They have done an absolutely SPECTACULAR job at Dunning (we haven't played Midway yet, so I can't speak for them), which is more than I can say for anywhere else we've played this year...
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| RollieFingers
August 17, 2009
1:23:26 PM
Entry #: 3248114
| For the couple of suggestions on reducing the tournament field from 12 down to 8:
I can guarantee that this won't happen because teams in the Riverview not named Minnetonka or St. Louis Park will not go for it. Every year the Riverview state tournament teams are Minnetonka and Park and then the other 7-10 teams battle for 1 spot. If the tournament went from 12-8 and only allowed 2 teams from each league, the Riverview would probably end up dissolving. While every team in the Riverview wants to beat the top 2 clubs, the reality is that the goal is to finish in the league standings where you can hopefully dodge those 2 teams in the playoffs and have a shot at that number 3 spot. Removing a team from each league for the state tournament basically would mean that the only 2 teams going to state every year from the Riverview would be Tonka and Park.
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| Semi Pro
August 17, 2009
2:13:52 PM
Entry #: 3248190
| We don't need to reduce the number of teams. Just run a basic double elimination tourney. All losers from round 1 play the losers from round 2. Then go forward from there. Go to any web site and this how they show how to set up a 12 team double elimantion tourney.
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| Don Erdall
August 17, 2009
2:48:39 PM
Entry #: 3248249
| Would it be silly to suggest the addition of another team per division to make it a straight 16 team tournament? It would eliminate the first round bye for the #1 seeds, but that didn't exactly help them out that much this year anyways. Using the 16 team format would make it so every team must play the same amount of games after a win or loss. Under the current system, a team that wins their first round game and loses their second against the #1 seed is actually in worse position than the team who lost the first round game. The team that lost the first round game will be throwing their #2 pitcher against other losers from first round games. The team who loses their second round game has already burned two starters and has to play against other first round winners or #1 seeds that lost.
Under a 16 team format, no league could play another league team until the third round.
RV - Riverview
SL - Skyline
SP - St. Paul
PN - Park National
RV1 vs SL4
SP2 vs PN3
SL1 vs RV4
PN3 vs SP3
SP1 vs PN4
RV2 vs SL3
PN1 vs SP4
SL2 vs RV3
straight double elim bracket
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| Old Timer
August 17, 2009
2:50:47 PM
Entry #: 3248256
| I have thought it should be 16 teams for years just like B and C.....
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| Don Erdall
August 17, 2009
3:06:01 PM
Entry #: 3248283
| Under that format, the bracket would've looked like this...
I think these are right
SL - Moes, Still, Stock, #4
RV - Park, Tonka, Bloom, #4
SP - Shams, Freight, Edge, #4
PN - Homes, Rocks, Pub, #4
Park vs. Skyline 4
Air Freight vs. Lyon's Pub
Moes vs. (Edina)
Rocks vs. Edge
Shamrocks vs. PN4
Tonka vs. Stockmens
Homes vs. SP4
Stillwater vs. Bloomington
It would obviously be flexible on which league plays which. In this format I have the riverview matched with the skyline, and st paul matched with park national. There are some really solid matchups in there and would make for a fair and entertaining tournament.
Thanks to all who set it up and ran it this year, very well done! Especially to those NSIC umps (Greg, Vellek, Andre) for putting up with our mostly Concordia, Winona, Mankato and Duluth squad. Haven't had enough of us yet??
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| Cyclone16
August 17, 2009
4:30:34 PM
Entry #: 3248375
| So a comment from a guy involved in all this stuff... And again more than happy to turn it all over. I'm still waiting for a volunteer to step up.
The number of games can only go down. We can not add any potential games because of cost and time. That is a fact, one additional game and the entire suggested format will be nixed.
Both a format of 8 and 16 teams has been kicked around. The 8 gets shot down all the time, but 16 has had some staying power, but the first round would be single elimination same as what B did a few years ago.
The argument for that has been, we had single elimination games several years ago (for 2 or 3 years) and nearly every team questioned, not just the teams that played the game, said it was a lot of effort to make the tourney only to potentially go home in one game. This is the same argument I've heard from several B teams. It also seems like everyone makes it when half your league is in.
The truth be told, the forum is a nice place to bounce ideas off other players, but if you're serious about any recommendations you need to speak with your respective commissioners. In order for things to go/get better the younger generation needs to step up and make some noise or the old guys like me will keep doing what's easier not necessarily better. Overall it's a great big pain in the rear, so what's easier (historical) is always done.
At this point in my career I'm not opposed to single elimination games for everybody in round 1. The #1 seeds will complain some because "everybody's got a guy" at this level that can beat anyone, but in truth the #1 seeds in aggregate haven't done so well the past few years.
One thing to be wary of is that everytime any single elimination games are brought up the immediate comment is let's make the entire tournament single elimination. I am not a proponent of that. But once the tourney has a single elimination round, it may not be too long before the entire tourney goes that route.
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| Semi Pro
August 17, 2009
5:09:09 PM
Entry #: 3248411
| So let's be sure to post the time and place for the fall meeting. I know I will be there. I'm intereseted in seeing Class A ball shine. If it's through more advertising, or venue, or web site. Class A ball has the top amatuer players in the state. I'm willing to put my time and energy into making it the best. And a special thanks to everyone who has put their time and effort into Class A ball this past year.
Shally, Sr.
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