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Author |
TOPIC: An Idea to end all the BS... |
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| guapo
September 18, 2009
3:17:13 PM
Entry #: 3279132
| Other leagues do it, why not ours?
League provides the bats. Every players throws in a few more bucks at the beginning of the year and we can for once and for all end all the talk about these fucking bats. Every time you go the bar it's, "This guys cheats, that guys cheats, do you think so and so cheats." As a pitcher I think I have a pretty good idea of those using altered bats, but I can't tell for sure. I can't think of one reason why anyone who isn't themselves cheating would object to this idea.
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| lb4lb
September 18, 2009
3:25:19 PM
Entry #: 3279143
| thats radical. Kinda like it. But...thats very very expensive. No? Say you need two per team $600 X 16 thats almost $10,000..
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| guapo
September 18, 2009
3:32:20 PM
Entry #: 3279150
| No...they would be per field, not per team. About 200 guys in the league. Three bats per field at 8 fields. 24 bats X $300 per bat = $7200. That about $40 per guy to insure that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE in this league is cheating. A bargain if you ask me.
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| OTR_31
September 18, 2009
3:50:48 PM
Entry #: 3279174
| Why would I ever kick in an additional $40, when I just spent $250 on a bat I made sure was legal? I know the difference between right and wrong. I'm not paying more to play because no one stands up to the cheaters.
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| Utilty guy
September 18, 2009
3:56:21 PM
Entry #: 3279182
| GREAT IDEA BUT WOULDNT WORK TOO MANY BRAND OF BATS GUYS SWING DIFFERENT WEIGHTS SOME BALANCED SOME END LOADED....PLUS WHO WOULD TAKE THE BATS HOME? IT ONLY TAKES 7.2 MINUTES ON THE LATHE MACHINE...OOPS.... I MEAN AROUND THAT MUCH TIME...
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| guapo
September 18, 2009
3:59:22 PM
Entry #: 3279188
| Yeah, $40 is a lot of money for 27 softball games. Nice titling your post a-hole by the way. Real classy.
So you have $250 to spend on a bat, but $40 is too much of a financial burden for you is that about right?
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| Stevens 4
September 18, 2009
4:01:16 PM
Entry #: 3279191
| Good point Dean...The only trouble is that the fatter and older I get I need to rely on the off chance that someone on my team has a shaved bat to keep me in the league. I think that I would have a hard time making any teams if I was sure I was swinging a legit bat every time up.
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| Guvna14
September 18, 2009
4:08:00 PM
Entry #: 3279198
| I play in Taunton, we're switching to league bats....I can put anyone on the board in touch with my guys from Taunton if you like....I'm on the committee for the new rules in 2010 also in reference to the bat laws/rules.
However, I own a lot of bats and my shit is legit....sometimes I turn a small profit trading online/at tournaments etc in addition to swinging and breaking in 3 sticks at a time.
If this league goes to league bats, the level of participation would certainly change.
I'm indifferent on the topic altogether because Taunton is a totally different league than Coventry......and we're using 44/400.....but please think hard before you make such a drastic change.
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| guapo
September 18, 2009
4:08:53 PM
Entry #: 3279200
| Hey a-hole (you gave yourself that name, not me) What if I put up your $40 next year. Since it is quite a sizeable chunk of cash for ya'?
And I just don't buy the whole thing about the "feel" of a bat. You'd have 3 choices...say a Worth, an Easton, and a Miken. If you're a good hitter I would think you can find a bat from those three manufacturers that would suit your tastes.
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| OTR_31
September 18, 2009
4:14:46 PM
Entry #: 3279208
| It's not that $40 is too much for anyone to bear, but you're asking the players that play legit to cough up more money to cover for guys who used shaved bats?
U-trip has an altered bat rule. 1 year suspension for the player (and manager) caught using one. I'd suggest enforcing that and calling out the guys you suspect of cheating before asking the legit players to kick in.
A bat-check with USSSA National is much less expensive than 48 or so new bats.
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| guapo
September 18, 2009
4:14:54 PM
Entry #: 3279209
| guvna14...a serious question. You say participation in the league would change. Do you say this because of the extra $40 or because guys won't want to use bats provided by the league?
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| guapo
September 18, 2009
4:21:05 PM
Entry #: 3279218
| a-hole...that was very well said, but it kind of misses the point. Can you imagine the shit storm that would start in this league if you took a guys bat to be X-rayed??? It would be a mess with the other team probably requesting that every bat on the accusing team be checked as well. That $250 bat you bought, do you use it in any other league? I bought a bat last year too so I'm in the same boat, but it's like $1 per game to make sure that we are all playing on a level field.
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| OTR_31
September 18, 2009
4:27:17 PM
Entry #: 3279221
| I understand where you're coming from too, Guapo. It's a safety issue, I know.
But I know I'd be sick to my stomach (and probably sued the crap out of, too) if I ever hurt someone with a shaved bat. That's what keeps me from swinging one.
BTW, yes I do use my bat in another U-trip league I play in.
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| OTR_31
September 18, 2009
4:31:06 PM
Entry #: 3279224
| People who swing shaved bats know it's wrong, but do it anyway. It's a morality issue, I guess.
Catch/accuse one person of swinging an altered bat, and the rest of them go away.
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| OSS
September 18, 2009
5:04:34 PM
Entry #: 3279256
| i wouldnt say they are everywhere less then 5 guys in the league using a shaved bat. the crack (sound) of the bat sounds way different . the bats are good enough since the change to usssa .
other illegal alterings of bats include , rolling , hitting the bat with anything besides a ball. rubber mallette , tree , fence post etc .these would be the more common things to do.
its the truth at any point you can question a bat and if a player gets hurt by a batted ball the bat is supposed to be taken for testing .
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| Ryno34
September 18, 2009
5:29:29 PM
Entry #: 3279272
| and 4 of them play for Rekos aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Ok seriously though. If you can't hit in a Sunday morning league with a legit bat you should be doing something else with your Sundays.
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| Stevens 4
September 18, 2009
9:03:29 PM
Entry #: 3279410
| Well it is off to church for me next year...I guess
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| tuck00
September 18, 2009
11:39:01 PM
Entry #: 3279517
| Cheaters will always cheat.
It is morality issue, someone will get killed around here and guys will still do it.
Bottom line is it's very hard to prove and you don't want everyone accusing everyone about their bat.
I like Guapo's idea, they do it in the Firecracker in CT, same bats 26,27 and 28 and it's the best tourney of the year.
I just don't think everyone would agree to do it.
I do hate the shaved bat shit, I borrowed someone's bat in a tourney, not from my team, and after I hit a piss rocket, which I normally can't do, I realized there was something funny about the bat, I asked the kid and he finally admitted it was and I was pissed.
Coventry is a rec league and if you have to swing a funny stick, you got problems, I'll take my .500 avg knowing I play the game legit.
I also love the guys that juice just to hit a softball 400 ft, 300 ft isn't enough for them.
AND FOR PETES SAKE STAY OFF THE MIDDLE
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| guapo
September 19, 2009
1:32:11 AM
Entry #: 3279567
| Now I'm drunk. And 125 people that saw my post still haven't given me a reason why we can't do this. Are all of you people crazy?? It's actually $35 PER YEAR FOR EACH GUY. And Tucker who is a bright man along with Artie say people will still cheat??? HOW? Am I the only one in this league with a head on my shoulders or wants to see things cleaned up? Ian? D-Train? Jeff? Bob? No one wants to see a clean league I guess.
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| T Mac
September 19, 2009
1:32:11 AM
Entry #: 3279568
| I LOVE THE TEAM I DRAFTED!!!!!! REAL PLAYERS... WE MAY USE NORMAL BATS BUT ATLEAST WE SLEEP AT NIGHT!
GUAPO,RYNO AND TUCKER ARE THE MEN OF ALL MEN !
STEVENS IS GREAT TOO BUT HE ISNT ON MY TEAM WHICH SUCKS.
Why not use the same bats?? IM IN! Seriously someone is gonna get hurt in sunday morning with friends and your gonna know the guy that u put in a wheel chair or in the ground!
I want to thank Pete the Playa for helping me tmrw... and thank Artie ( i know i dont do this often ) for making it work.
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| E W 3 3
September 19, 2009
6:44:35 AM
Entry #: 3279596
| As long as one of the bats is a miken product i could deal with it. I like the idea Guapo and it would be fine by me. Before you worry about the low positive response on the boards keep in mind that most message boards only recieve negative opinions posted. This is because those people are worried about stopping it from happening. The people who like it usually sit back and see what happens. It's unfortunate but it's described as the "message board mentality".
I am all for it and would really enjoy that. I don't suspect many guys at all in this league are really using juiced bats, but thats just me. The big difference between bats I think is due to the absolute rocks we are swinging at.
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| E W 3 3
September 19, 2009
6:52:22 AM
Entry #: 3279598
| As a side note, Im sure that those projected numbers would be a lot different for the cost of this. When you go to buy them I can guarantee with Tucker's or Kirby's connections they can find a bulk rate on the bats that would provide the bats at much lower than 250 a bat.
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| tuck00
September 19, 2009
5:40:33 PM
Entry #: 3279821
| Guapo,
I wasn't shooting your idea down, I'm in.
In fact the first step would be a league vote on the idea with everyone that played this past season getting a vote.
If approved we could work out the details, I would help with the how? bat prices and models.
We may be able to get a deal on buying x amount of bats.
TMac and the guys, good job today, we ran out of gas with no rest between the games our 40 plus yr olds were tired, at least I was tired.
Good Job to Dutilly, he said he was going to win and did, Who needs Ernie
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| Lags
September 19, 2009
6:17:59 PM
Entry #: 3279838
| change the balls .. maybe we can use the ones off of EW's chin.. i know those are soft...
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| role player
September 19, 2009
7:38:13 PM
Entry #: 3279877
| What if somebody in the league (myself) had the ability of xraying bats? Keeps it local, no shipping fees, no Utrip fees, etc. I would just need to know what the hell I'm looking for. Would offsetting the cost of calling somebody out make it easier to call them out?
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| role player
September 19, 2009
7:55:58 PM
Entry #: 3279889
| I personally am glad to be part of this league and I've been trying to get in for a few seasons just because of the level of play it is known for. But I know and noticed a majority of the guys around the league use legit bats, but guys that already hit the ball a ton seem to be the ones using the hot bats for some insane reason. When some of these guys roll up to the plate I'm glad as hell that I can't pitch to save my life, because I see these guys miss a ball and shoot middle... All I can do is cringe.
I love the fact that we can use the bats that we do in Coventry. Hitting double and single wall non-composites suck and get boring after awhile. But a line needs to be drawn somewhere.
I'll start tinkering around with my bat (and if anybody would like to let me borrow a bat or two to shoot, I'll get them back to you) I can start popping a few shots here and there at work and figure out a technique to check these things out, I'd be game for it. Think about it and let me know.
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| E W 3 3
September 19, 2009
9:18:49 PM
Entry #: 3279947
| That's a hell of an idea role player. I'm sure there is some info out there to figure out what you are looking at. I'm sure Artie or Tuck can find someone that can teach you about how to check. Maybe u can even earn some side cash for yourself out of the deal too :)
Lags, go see Cy Sperling.
Tucker go fuck a duck lol.
Guapo, hell of an idea.
Ryman, doesnt like this because his bat is so juicy he is afraid he will be found out....strike that last comment. That was just pizza sauce dripping from his bat.
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| Broz
September 19, 2009
11:43:57 PM
Entry #: 3280035
| Sorry Guapo I dont like the idea. You cant punish the many for the few that cheat. Guys, such as myself, do get comfortable with thier own bat. It needs to be policed to weed out the cheaters not dictated to the whole.Don't we have enough restrictions in this game as it is now your going to tell me what bat I have to swing?
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| guapo
September 20, 2009
12:57:16 AM
Entry #: 3280063
| Well Broz, first off and way more importantly. Since your on the board I am guessing that you are feeling better. Great news.
I know you love your Synergy, but what other restrictions are you talking about? I would have thought an old timer like yourself would agree with me that the game has changed and not necessarily for the better with the juiced up bats and balls we use nowadays.
And I don't know who said it but as the saying goes, sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I am not optimistic about our league ever doing anything like this. I've heard a lot of reasons why not (most of them I consider pretty lame), but I truly believe that if everyone took their own personal reasons for being against it out of it they would see that it would be good for the league as a whole.
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| OSS
September 20, 2009
9:19:52 AM
Entry #: 3280142
| i agree broz alot of people spend alot of money on personnel bats , you know how mental guys get .but you are nevet gonna please everyones needs . most if not all companys make a balanced and endload model. i think most of tge new bats are junk and dont have the durabilty like my OG freak , beavers catylist ,broz's syn 2, duttillys OG synergy. so with the thousands spent on these bats , what do you do with them? Its not as bad as you think and the few that SHAVE are doing it to hit HRs not hit the middle like competitive teams do. put the info out there some of these guys prolly dont even know the punishment for getting caught. i think its a 3 years ban from ALL usssa and the coach gets a one year ban.
lags they are going to tge 40 core 325 comp ball in all usssa leagues next year.
EW i hate tge psycho so if its not on the list of bats we are buying do you still like tge idea ?
ryno at anytime you can pick a bat from our dugout and i will pay to have it checked as long as you reemburse me when it comes back clean.
its a tough call but like i said its not as bad as bad as you are saying 5 out of 500 .
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| OSS
September 20, 2009
9:25:40 AM
Entry #: 3280145
| sorry for the screwed up post im on my iphone and my sausage fingers get in the way
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| tuck00
September 20, 2009
7:22:33 PM
Entry #: 3280571
| Broz, lame excuse, how many years did I tell you to hit it to right and you said you couldn't but I notice you hit quite well that way now. Your a good hitter and could hit it with a toothpick.
When you play coed, or over 35 you use a different bat and still hit great.
Artie, it's more than you think or are admitting to, altering a bat by shaving, rolling or hitting it with something other than a softball is technically cheating, although I do have less of a problem with rolling as it just breaks the bat in quicker.
The only reason I like the idea for Coventry is because the fields are for the most part short porches and you shouldn't need any help from the bat to hit it out there.
Ernie don't pick on me because we shut your ass down in the tournament yesterday, 1 hit and those were some of the ugliest swings I've ever seen,lol see you Tuesday
Dutilly, Beer and DR tuesday, I drink also!!!!
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| Broz
September 22, 2009
9:14:07 AM
Entry #: 3282485
| Not an excuse tuck just making a point that alot of guys are comfortable with thier own stuff. Never said it was a bad idea. Illegal bats are gay and whoever needs to use them is a friggin moron!!! There has to be another way I just dont agree with tellin guys what you can and cant use especially if its a legal bat for the league. Thanks for the concern Guapo they still dont know whats wrong but still pokin and pryin to find out, startin to feel a lil better tho.
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| tuck00
September 22, 2009
5:17:59 PM
Entry #: 3283224
| Broz, sorry I'm running around like an idiot getting ready for Fl and forgot to ask how you were feeling.
Sorry to hear you are still sick and it sucks that they can't figure out whats wrong with you.
Good Luck
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| Unclemertog
September 22, 2009
9:13:03 PM
Entry #: 3283467
| Guapo, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this issue. Firstly you erroneously state that it’s forty dollars for the 30 games of softball but if you tack on the league fee that we are already paying it now becomes 80.00 for the year and it is an entirely different scenario now. I suspect that this is what Guvna14 was referring to when he said that participation would most likely go down. Tacking on another 40.00 due to paranoid and sometimes delusional suspicions (and it is suspicion at this point) of those who continue to cry “Shenanigans” but do not ask an umpire to check the bat is diametrically as well diacritically opposed to what the league has been trying to accomplish the last few years, and that is SAVE MONEY and make Sunday morning softball cheaper not more expensive.
Keep in mind this was one of the major issues in switching from ASA to USSSA, it was cheaper and the umpiring was better, but in all honesty when Artie pitched the idea to the league it was the monetary savings that sold the idea. Also keep in mind it was the fact that ASA was severely altering its bat list and many of the bats we had would have been banned, this coupled to the fact that if we went to USSSA guys would be able to use their personal bats in any league they played in. Thus what you arrive at is we were lowering the costs of playing here in Coventry and we were able now to use the same bats in any league.
When we talked about what to do with the savings in cost during the change from ASA to USSSA and the question was posed to all the managers about whether we wanted to put the savings in the treasury or knock down the price of playing from 50.00 to 40.00 it was unanimous that we wanted the savings to go toward lower player fees. Many times on the website I’ve heard people talk about lowering it even more (which I don’t believe is a possibility) but you’re talking about tacking on an additional 40.00. Guys were pissed about paying an extra 10.00 let alone 40.00. So I agree with Guvna14 when he says participation might go down.
Now 40.00 might not seem to be a lot of money for you but for some of us it is a lot of money at present. I know a lot of guys would tell the league to “cheek it” when then can go play in another league for 35.00 or 40.00 bucks, and continue to use their same bat that they are comfortable with.
Another major goal of this league was to keep the 16 teams in the league and their was talk of even expanding. We always hear of teams trying to recruit more quality ball players and make the league more competitive all the time. By tacking on another 40.00 to everyone’s league fee in conjunction with the Exemption rule you are in fact driving away players from the league instead of attracting them. How many guys do you think will say: “Oh sure I’ll pay 80.00 to play in Coventry when I can pay 35.00 to 50.00 in Warwick, Cranston, Burriville, Woonsocket, Cumberland, Lincoln, Johnston etc etc.” It just won’t work.
And let’s be honest, right here and now,”Do you or does anyone else here KNOW FOR A FACT that someone is using an illegal bat”? “Do you or anyone else here SUSPECT that someone is using an illegal bat”? If you do say it now or forever hold your peace. How many people have called a team out for using an illegal bat? What I mean to say is that if anyone here feels that strongly about this issue and has that much conviction on the subject than have the balls to say something. If you know that someone is using an illegal bat do something about it, have the balls to call him out. I have yet to hear of anyone calling anyone out on an illegal bat yet, so in my eyes it is all mere speculation.
The point was made and it is a very lucid and suitable point, “There is absolutely no reason to make everyone pay for unfounded accusations with no evidence or fact to support it” To simply state that the league should buy bats and to not allow players to use their own bats which they are comfortable with simply because a few people SUSPECT that there may be one or two players with illegal bats is absolutely retarded in it’s very conception. To suggest that every player has to kick in an additional 40.00 dollars for a Sunday morning softball game because there may or may not be a retard with an shaved bat to me is absolutely astounding in lack of common sense. That is the equivalent of declaring martial law on the league and stating that we cannot be trusted to have our own bats and is insulting in its very nature.
The other point that no one has brought up is that bat upkeep is going to be very expensive. This is not a one time thing bats will need to be replaced every so often and new bats will come out that guys will want and we are talking a major expense here. I say this is not the leagues place to buy bats let that expense stay with the teams.
In addition like Artie said, some guys swing 30oz bats, some swing 26ozbats, some swing end load and some swing balanced, then you have Easton, Miken, Worth, Combat, Demarini its all a matter of personal taste and we cannot afford to buy that many bats.
Finally if guys are afraid to play Sunday morning softball how about you just scrap the league and all the bullshit and just simply make it a wooden bat league and be done with the entire argument altogether.
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| guapo
September 22, 2009
10:25:53 PM
Entry #: 3283526
| I give up. I don't know why I even care because I don't plan on playing next year anyway.
-Use you personal bats that you are all "comfortable" with.
-Refuse to believe there are cheaters in this league.
-Retire early with that extra $40 you will all save.
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| tuck00
September 22, 2009
11:35:33 PM
Entry #: 3283567
| Guapo,
Don't retire you don't want to become a golfer.
Unclemertog, there is no sense in accusing anyone because you can't tell by looking at a bat, that as far as common sense goes is idiotic.
You would have to pay $300 to test the bat on a machine or have it cut open and if you are wrong another $300 to replace the bat, now that's $600.
It is always an assumption on a bats legality, but what I think Guapo was trying to say is you have a pretty good idea by how the ball comes off the bat, by sound and speed and distance.
Some of us old farts have been around the game in multiple leagues for over 20 yrs and pretty much know if something is funny about a bat, but complaining about it does no good because proving it is hard and very expensive.
Ask the umpire in chief, Rick Sousa about altered bats and he will tell you the same thing.
I don't think Guapo and I are the only 2 people in the Coventry league who think this, but it probably will never change, all I know is the over 35 league in Warwick uses single wall bats and it still doesn't stop teams from hitting home runs or scoring a lot of runs it just protects the pitchers and the integrity of the game.
I don't care either way because I don't pitch and am smart enough to get the hell out of the way on anything hit to hard for me to handle, which is almost any ball hit to me.
Someone has to stick up for Guapo
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| role player
September 23, 2009
8:48:40 AM
Entry #: 3283735
| Like I said in an earlier post, I am willing to start x-raying bats. I've actually shot a few already and have seen the difference in wall thicknesses between 1 and 2 pc composites as well as a double wall. I just got to get my hands on a single wall. I think as I get more of a sample selection from different manufacturers I can start picking up on abnormalities and make suggestions to league officials on what to cut. This will save the league or team on the $300 testing fee / $300 fee if you are wrong. But I do agree with Mert... it does come down to who's got the balls to start calling people out.
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| DUTILLY
September 23, 2009
8:49:38 AM
Entry #: 3283737
| i agree with merts point about there are too many bats to chose fromand weights etc.. but people complaining about an extra 40 bucks? thats horse shit..these are the same people that will go play a round of golf for 60 bucks and a buy a few beers for an extra 20 so thats 80 dollars for 5 hrs on the golf course but wont spend 80 to play 30 games of softball?
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| Guvna14
September 23, 2009
10:25:23 AM
Entry #: 3283854
| Sorry, but I feel compelled to jump in here.
Most of the time these topics come up, there is either an injury to a pitcher, the pitcher is complaining that he has to work and almost got hurt.....or a team is passing a bat and blasting the ball out on a "missed hit" from a guy that weighs 120 lbs.....overall, it is primarily to prevent someone from getting seriously hurt.
So here's the deal: We have 4 options to change this or drop it altogether.
1. League Bats
2. Wooden Bats
3. Circle around the pitcher's mound that is an automatic out if the ball goes in that area.
4. Pitcher's screen that is also an automatic out if it's hit.
For the record, I am not in favor of changing to any of these....allow me to get that out of the way. The reason for this is if you don't want to pitch, don't! We're grown men and this is what we signed up for...to play competitive, fast paced softball. If you say something about your age, go to a 50+ league and stop crying. I respect those that have played this game for many years….but if it’s dangerous to you, play somewhere else. I suck at riding motorcycles, so I don’t ride them!
Guapo and Mertog, I don’t disagree with either of you….but the bottom line is that this change would be a major overhaul and tumultuous to say the least. I don’t think that it would happen…but ultimately, it is up to the board and the 16 managers that hold the glue in this league.
And for what it's worth, it's not as simple as an extra 40.00/player.
This is my first year in this league and I feel that it’s run pretty well overall….President Smith is accurate by saying that it’s a democracy and the voices of the players do get heard.
In closing, I have to get a couple things out of the way. Next year, USSSA is going to a wet sock of a ball (40/325). If you want to play with the rocks, let’s go to NSA…I have the contacts to make this happen within 30 days of training and manicuring. NSA would allow us to pretty much do what we want with bats, balls etc. Lastly, if you want to have a U-Trip league, drop the arc back to U-Trip…this 6-12 shit (6-15 for some of the pitchers, you know who you are) sucks when you’re chasing a ball over your head….especially next year after the ball goes to a marshmallow after the first inning.
Overall, these are just my opinions…to those that don’t know me hopefully you’ll value and respect them as I have played some pretty high levels on the diamond.
And if you swing a crispy bat and shoot middle, may God have mercy on you because you are a piece of shit.
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| Gopher
September 23, 2009
11:10:12 AM
Entry #: 3283885
| He Said " President Smith"... Thats great
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| Unclemertog
September 23, 2009
2:43:59 PM
Entry #: 3284125
| Listen guys I don’t presume to have all of the answers but what I do have is questions, and lots of them. Before we run off half-cocked about changing bats and calling into question if there are illegal bats in use here in Coventry, the first order of business is to conduct some sort of census to elicit whether or not the league as a whole wants to even address this issue.
I believe the first order of business is to ask the question: “Were there any serious injuries sustained this year that can be directly associated with the playing equipment.” The second question would be similar to the first and that is:”Were there any minor injuries sustained this year directly associated with the playing equipment”. It logically follows that the next question would be: “Is there a substantial number of occurring injuries that can be attributed to the change in playing equipment from previous years to this year”. Essentially can anyone show a significant rise/decline in injuries from previous years to this year to determine whether or not a safety issue even exists at this point?
Another thing we must keep in mind is that we are looking at playing next year with a substantially inferior ball than the balls we have been accustomed to playing with in the past. We went from using a WORTH GOLD DOT in (ASA) to using USSSA bats in conjunction with the TRUMP STOTE (which in my opinion would have been the time where you saw the most injuries because that ball was absolutely ridiculous) to using the WORTH MAXSPEC (which was a decent ball) to using the WORTH GOLD DOT classic M (still a pretty decent ball) to the ball we will be using next year which is lovingly referred to as the SOCK BALL.
Once again I point to the fact that we went from ASA bats to using USSSA bats and the TRUMP STOTE ball and there were absolutely no complaints of injury due to the change in equipment or balls. I also believe that while injuries are apt to occur at any time, at no time however were pitchers more susceptible to being hit by a come-backer than they were when we immediately changed over to USSSA bats and STOTE balls. Particularly here in Coventry where many of the players never saw USSSA bats and in conjunction with the best ball ever made the change in velocity and speed and yet no report of an increase in injury due to bats or balls.
I would recommend that no change in bats occur just yet until we see what this new ball is like. If it is in fact as bad as they say I’m sure even the faintest of heart pitchers will not feel as endangered as they have in the past.
Just to post the following from USSSA rule book
2007 Altered Bat Announcement
To address the concern of altered or just excessively used softball bats, USSSA is asking that players no
longer use any bat that shows any visible sign of wear on the barrel, knob, cap or plug. USSSA umpires
and directors in 2007 are authorized in their discretion to remove from play any bat which shows wear such as
worn off or cracked graphics or damaged barrels, handles, tapers, plugs, caps or knobs. Umpires or directors in
their discretion may either remove the offending bat from the game or tournament and return it at the end
of play or simply ask the player to put the bat away and not use it in USSSA play.
If such a bat is brought back into USSSA play, the owner and user of such a bat may be
suspended from USSSA play for up to one year.
*Altered Bats - Excessive Pressure
Included in the USSSA view of what is an altered or doctored bat are any bats that are subjected to pressure
in any manner that exceeds that of striking the bat against an approved ball traveling at game like speeds.
Such excess pressure would include, but is not limited to, any compression, rolling, placing in a vice,
hitting a stationary object such as a pole, etc.
The days of using altered bats in USSSA play are about to come to an end. As a result of rule changes to be implemented beginning in the 2004 USSSA playing season, USSSA is intent on removing all altered bats from USSSA play. Beginning in 2004, if you feel that a player may be using an altered bat in USSSA play, you should report it to the appropriate local or state USSSA director. The Director will have the authority to inspect the bat and to suspend the suspected offending player. The suspected offending player will have a couple of choices: First, he can allow the director to inspect the bat and reach his initial conclusion on whether the bat might be altered or he can keep his bat from inspection and accept a 1 year suspension from USSSA play with no right appeal Second, if after allowing inspection, the director has decided that the bat might be an altered bat, the suspected offending player may allow the director to send the bat to the USSSA Altered Bat Committee and/or the Manufacturer of the bat for a determination on whether the bat is altered or he can accept a 1 year suspension from USSSA play with no right of appeal. During the time of the examination of the bat by the manufacturer, depending on the sole discretion of the USSSA Altered Bat Committee the USSSA may suspend the suspected offending player pending the decision. If the manufacturer or the Altered Bat Committee of the USSSA determine in their sole discretion that the bat has been altered the Altered Bat Committee may suspend a first time offender for up to 2 years from USSSA play. Such suspension decision may be appealed at the next USSSA annual meeting. For a second time offender, any suspension under this altered bat suspension process will be for life.
The responsibility for knowing whether a bat is altered is that of the user and the owner of the bat. If an individual uses a bat in USSSA play or is the owner of a bat that is brought into a USSSA facility, the suspensions will be imposed with out regard to what the individual knew about the bat being altered. An individual must know that his bat is not an Altered bat, if he brings it into a USSSA facility or uses it in a USSSA game. If not, the individual can be suspended from USSSA activities. The fact that the individual did not know that the bat was altered is not a factor in imposing the suspension. The question is only whether the bat is altered or not.
Altered bats are bats, which have 1. had the surface of the barrel or the taper changed in any way such as by sandpapering or applying a solvent to the surface such as fingernail polish remover or by any other means, 2. had the plug removed/replaced or changed in any way, 3. had the knob removed/replaced or changed in any way, or 4. had anything removed or added to the inside or outside of the bat other that tape at the handle or knob. Cracked, worn (paint/lettering wear is not a problem so long as the bat can be identified and has the appropriate BPF marking, but any wearing of the bat material or identifying paint or BPF wear will be cause for removal) or damaged bats are not altered bats, but will also be removed from play by USSSA directors and umpires. Such cracked, worn or damaged bats will not result in a player suspension, unless the player returns the offending bat into USSSA play after it has been removed or the bat is also altered.
Don DeDonatis
Executive Director USSSA
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| Unclemertog
September 23, 2009
6:11:58 PM
Entry #: 3284360
| Dutilly, just a quick question for you. If you know for a fact that you can buy Milk for 3.00 a gallon at Store A or you can buy that same milk at 6.00 a gallon at Store B common sense will dictate you are shopping at store A or you went outside without a protective helmet again.
The question is why would you pay 80.00 to play in Coventry or you can play anywhere else for 35.00 to 50.00 for the season? Now there is no question that some guys would stay in Coventry because they like it here, but soon the numbers would dwindle like they did before and you WOULD NOT be bringing in new players unless you were willing to pay their league fee for them.
Simply put...NO ONE is going to come from other leagues where they pay half of what we pay to play here. The fields are not like Wide World of Sports where everyone would pay just to use those fields.
40.00 dollars is a huge difference!
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| DUTILLY
September 23, 2009
7:25:04 PM
Entry #: 3284410
| i hear ya mert i figured you were gonna rip me but u were nice thank you.......
ps.... ERNIE WRIGHT WILL NEVER WIN ANYTHING WITHOUT ME
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| guapo
September 23, 2009
9:52:09 PM
Entry #: 3284540
| Crack on my idea all you want. Since none of my friends in this league have supported my idea except for Tuck I guess it sucks. But crack on the $40? Minimum wage is like $8. That's at most five hours of work per year out of a possible 2080 hours in a 40 hour work week. Find another excuse please!
Also, I think 16 teams is plenty.
Mert, I love your sponsor and think that you are a great guy, but I guess this is one of things where two farly level headed guys just disagree completely. It happnes.
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| E W 3 3
September 24, 2009
12:22:51 AM
Entry #: 3284650
| I supported you earlier on in the post Dean. I just don't think it's a very doable idea. The bat selection would not make everyone happy at the proposed amount. I really don't understand how or why you are finding it so hard to believe that this idea is not well recieved...
Your vision of the league would have this....
Dugout A) is up to bat and has 1 Miken in 26oz 1 Easton in 27oz and 1 Worth in 28oz.
How the fuck is everyone covered by that? That covers my preference at a 26oz miken, but Darren loves 30 oz bats ....no bat for him there.... duffy likes 27oz mikens ....wait not bat for him there....
see the pattern?
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| Ryno34
September 24, 2009
6:24:56 AM
Entry #: 3284735
| I am cheap.
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| lb4lb
September 24, 2009
9:13:10 AM
Entry #: 3284819
| and chubby
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| lb4lb
September 24, 2009
9:18:37 AM
Entry #: 3284825
| I like the heart of deans arguement..which is the saftey of players in the league. But whether or not a freak or a mayhem is doctored or not ...or almost every other bat we use....it is still a very juicy bat. If Warwick twilite is double wall for the same reasons Dean has concerns about why arent we double wall only league? Almost every player in the league has several bats depending on where he is playing on any given day....to me thats the simplest answer.
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| Unclemertog
September 24, 2009
3:56:09 PM
Entry #: 3285251
| Dean you are completely missing my point here! I am certainly not trying to berate you in any shape or way, nor am I trying to say your ideas have no merit…they do, safety is an important issue, I just oppose the methodology you are employing here. You know that I think you are one of the nicest guys that I have ever met, and this is nothing personal so don’t misconstrue what I am saying as an “argument ad hominum” I am simply trying to point out some major issues that I believe were omitted in you thought progression.
I know that you believe that COST is not an issue and for many of us it may not be, but I can assure you for others it certainly is. Now while we all believe that 40.00 is not going to break any of us, I guarantee you that it certainly will dissuade NEW players from coming to this league. Once again I point out that at the meetings we held when we discussed switching over to USSSA it was unanimous that we reflect all savings from the switch over to lowering the cost of player’s fees. Some even asked if we could lower them even more, which we felt was not a wise idea.
In addition if players can play in any other league in the state for half of what Coventry charges, why would the current players stay here? The idea was to keep prices low to attract other players to come here and to continuously expand the league or at the very least to keep a healthy sixteen teams. The idea of raising prices to play in this league opposes the very foundations of that original idea.
The idea of only having three bats once again will deter players from coming here. I know that many guys want to swing their own bats that they are comfortable with. On my team alone we swing Mutants, Juggernauts, Freaks, Mayhems, NRG, Titans, in all different weights, and we all rip off the grip and replace it with tape and bat knobs. We all have personal preferences. (Have you ever seen the weird ass tape job Ernie does to his bat) There are just too many variables to cover here. The point is you will not be able to continue to draw NEW players to the league and you will lose many players by limiting what bat they can swing. Now we are talking about not only tacking on 40.00 more dollars to play here but also limiting what bat they can swing. It is just bad for the league overall.
We have a guy here who will be able to x-ray bats, I would suggest looking into this suggestion further. If we apply this measure and it can be done, then calling someone out for an illegal bat would be extremely easy. If someone were caught or refused to have their bat x-rayed….they would be suspended from the league. This would dissuade cheating altogether. Having the means of backing up the threat of nailing someone with an altered bat in and of itself would be the greatest deterrent. If anyone used an altered bat with this in place they would be acting out of sheer stupidity. (Not entirely uncommon)
I would say that would be the way to go!
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| OSS
September 24, 2009
10:09:24 PM
Entry #: 3285564
| guvna we approached RI NSA when we made the switch , they were unable to cover the 16 umpires we need weekly.
mert i believe usssa is switching to a 40 core 325 comp ball for all leagues , except for the majors . the ball will be marked not with the actual specs but marked CLASSIC M. so with that i will tell you we dont have to use the worth 40 core. all the companys are making these balls. the balls that are being called a sock is the worth 40 core. it breaks down it the heat . the trump 40 core is thought be harder but this is false . it just breaks down alot slower than the the worth .
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| Guvna14
September 25, 2009
7:24:46 AM
Entry #: 3285727
| That was the same problem that we had in Taunton....but we trained "our own" and NSA gave us the flexibility to basically handle it ourselves after the players were properly trained.
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| OSS
September 25, 2009
11:46:34 AM
Entry #: 3285954
| using guys in the league works in tauton bc you play different nights and have different dividions. you would need a pool of 20-25 guys to cover the league.
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| Not My Buddy
September 25, 2009
1:35:27 PM
Entry #: 3286067
| Sometimes the only solution to problems such as this is to compromise, and in this case it's pretty simple. Buy 3 bats for each field: 26oz, 27oz, and 28oz all shaved! This way, you can either use the bat you are comfortable with, or use one of the juiced league bats. No one has an advantage because everyone has access to a crispy bat, and everybody wins aside from pitcher and hot corners. Any other brain busters? I'd pay an extra $40 for the chance to hit a homerun next year!
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| guapo
September 25, 2009
8:49:47 PM
Entry #: 3286416
| I really want to get past this since it is clear that my idea has a snowballs chance in hell of ever being instituted in this league and I just end up arguing with guys I trust and respect.
BUT I just want to end with this...
1) Other leagues do it. It's not unprecedented. We will not do it because we chose not to. Not because it's financially impossible.
2) I honestly could give two shits if Ernie likes to use a bat with a funny wrap or Daren likes a 30 ounce bat or Broz likes his Synergy. If we had 3 bats to chose from, pick one and hit the damn ball being pitched at 6 miles per hour. All the bats we can use are more than capable of hitting the snot out of the ball. ADAPT...it's an important part of life.
That's all.
Golf tournament with Considine, EW, and Gopher tomorrow. That should be ugly. Maybe I can convert them to golfers so I have people to play with on Sundays next year.
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| Soxfan7
September 25, 2009
11:11:20 PM
Entry #: 3286478
| The concept of having league bats is somewhat interesting. The break down of the price is good but what happens when bats start cracking. We all know that it happens, it is to be expected. Now you are sending bats back to the factory and waiting for one to come back. Who pays for the extra bats and how many extra bats would the league need to purchase in order to maintain the 3 bats for each field???? Pitching sucks!!!! Dean you could never pay me enough to be on the mound with the bats that people swing. Just my 2 cents.
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| Nate_6
September 26, 2009
9:22:43 AM
Entry #: 3286609
| I think the dead horse has been beat enough. It was a great idea in theory,and you think more pitchers would chime in but the fact is it boils down to most softball players being mental cases,myself included. I would be against "league bats" simply because I am a head case who feels that I am better swinging my CNT than any other bat. I am not alone here.Besides,whats to stop a coach from taking the three bats to the shop and getting them rolled/shaved?
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| tuck00
September 27, 2009
10:35:23 PM
Entry #: 3288057
| I know this is dead and buried but I wanted to respond to Merts post from Mr. DiDonotis:
At the B worlds last weekend there were 29 teams, if you just hit a ball thru the middle or hit a HR they were taking the bats out of the game and testing the bat pressure, they confiscated over 150 bats and didn't give them back and no one was suspended for any amount of time even though their bat failed the pressure test and this past weekend they didn't even test any bats because there were too many teams there.
Mr. DiDonitus is a fraud and all about the money Utrip can make off of teams, they don't give two shits about the integrity of the game or whether someone gets hurt.
Mert, I don't disagree with what you say but as I said, It's not easy to prove and if it's proven nobody, except the person who gets hurt really gives a shit.
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| OSS
September 28, 2009
8:30:04 AM
Entry #: 3288182
| tuck you really cant compare coventry to the B worlds , besides you know half the bats that were taken were straight from the factory . the bats that sponsored teams get arent stock. i wouldnt compare coventry to tournament play . you said rolling was ok i bet half the bats that got taken were taken bc they were rolled or well broken in . if they did a compression test at least half the older bats would fail bc when the break in they lose compression.
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| tuck00
September 28, 2009
8:36:48 PM
Entry #: 3289116
| Artie,
Cheating is having unfair advantage, and while I said rolling should be legal because it's just breaking the bat in quicker, I have never even done that and if it's shaved it shouldn't matter whether it's the worlds or in league, matter of fact safer at the worlds because most guys know where the ball is going, while league players tend to hit the middle more often by mistake.
You are missing my point about calling guys out about bats, I was only responding to the DiDonitus piece put on here by Mert.
If Utrip cared they would push the issue at the Worlds where it is a high profile event and find a way to xray the bats, once some people get caught and get suspended it will hopefully scare anybody no matter where they play to not use them.
You can say what you want but there are altered bats in coventry and I'm not just talking rolling.
Let's just erase this thread because there is no answer that will make everyone happy and I just hope no one gets hurt by one of these because you will go to jail, assault with a dangerous weapon, no joke
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| DeMonti
September 30, 2009
12:18:59 PM
Entry #: 3290776
| you guys have nothing better to do then come up with every fuckin stupid scenario and all these different fuckin stupid rules and pitcher screens and circles and everyone use the same bat, are you fuckin homo pussies kidding me, why dont we just get a bunch of fuckin homeless bums off the street come down and just play for us and we can just watch from the sidelines
SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO TO THE FIELD LIKE GROWN MEN AND JUST PLAY THE FUCKIN GAME LIKE ITS MEANT TO BE PLAYED LIKE IT HAS BEEN FOR DECADES AND STOP YOUR FUCKIN BITCHING, IM SO SICK OF READING THIS STUPID FUCKIN POST ITS DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!!! GO PLAY COED IF YOU DONT LIKE THE RULES AND NO ONE ELSE POST HERE, LET THIS PATHETIC FUCKIN POST DIE ALREADY!!!
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| guapo
September 30, 2009
1:28:53 PM
Entry #: 3290852
| Hmmm, I didn't know they had composite bats DECADES ago. You learn something new every day.
Here's simple solution: If you don't like the thread, don't continue to read it.
If Demonti disagrees with me, my idea must have some merit!
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| DeMonti
October 1, 2009
12:25:30 PM
Entry #: 3291831
| hey guapo, i usually enjoy all your posts and laugh my ass off at them but dude, its a fuckin sunday morning recreational fun beer drinking league for christ sake, who gives a fuck if someone cheats, are any of us getting signed by the sox next week or is any one gettn paid to show up on sunday or getting a six figure bonus for having the best stats? didnt think so. dont waste your breath bud, this fuckin old men asa league wont even go to true u trip rules for cryin out loud, you think these old timerts are gonna chande the rules to your over the top same bat bullshit, gimmie a break, quit pissin into the wind my friend
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| DeMonti
October 1, 2009
3:34:52 PM
Entry #: 3292042
| another note, forums are places where you comment on a topic publically in which other people can form there own opinion on that topic, you had yours, and i have mine, you were rite, you learn something new everyday.
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