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TOPIC: Hitting a pitcher |
| Catapult
September 1, 2011
11:21:27 AM
Entry #: 3792425
| We played against School last night. Good players and good bunch of guys but I do have one issue. In the first inning a batter went up the middle just missing our pitchers shin. In the second inning a different batter launch a 200 MPH rocket at the pitchers head and caught him on his ear. Our pitcher was seriously hurt and if he didn't get his glove on it I'm sure he would of taken it right in the middle of the face and could have been dead.
My question to the league and other players is why do we tolerate this? Pretty much all players can avoid hitting it at the pitcher, yet game in and game out it happens. I have been in this league 11 years and I have NEVER hit a ball within 10 feet of the pitcher. So why do these guys do it? If it were their daughter or son on the mound pitching would they shoot it at them? Of course not, so why do these idiots think it is Ok to do it to another player? Is it really worth a base hit if it means you might seriously injure someone?
The league should have addressed this issue years ago and if you are a teammate of a player who regularly shoots the box take some responsibility and tell him to STOP.
I'm not sure how to remedy the situation. I think an automatic out is necessary for the infraction and if it happens twice in a game from the same player then a 3 game suspension.
No one needs to go up the middle. You do it because you chose to and I for one am getting tired of it.
Doug
CrupiLaw
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| pete t
September 1, 2011
4:12:36 PM
Entry #: 3792650
| Roger doesnt normally go up the middle and i dont think that he has the ability to place it where he wants to.The hit in question was probably the hardest he has hit the ball in the 12 years that i have been on this team.I feel bad for Kirk and hopefully hes ok as he finished the game.I myself have had many comebackers this year by people who can place it where they want and dont agree with it but it seems to be part of the game these days.
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| widds
September 1, 2011
4:47:51 PM
Entry #: 3792682
| First, I hope Kirk is okay.
Second, with all due respect Doug, I can`t name a single person in this league who would intentionally go up the middle with any intent to injure. I also know that there isn`t anyone on the School who would ever hit there intentionally. I can also personally attest to the point that in every case of a ball being hit up the middle in any of our games, an apology from the batter is common even before he gets to first base.
Being a pitcher is a part of the game and yes, sometimes balls come their way, but thats just ball.
There are well designed masks that are available that would definitely prevent an injury to the head in such a case.
Remember, pitching outside to a pull hitter is always an invitation to disaster....
Cheers,
Widds
TL
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| Catapult
September 1, 2011
5:04:07 PM
Entry #: 3792688
| I don't think this particular batter did it on purpose but there are many players that intentionally go up the middle. I know there intent is not to injure but just by doing it they increase the odds tremendously. I know it is part of the game but it is a part that could probably be mostly eliminated if there were consequences in place.
Doug
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| widds
September 1, 2011
5:14:42 PM
Entry #: 3792696
| and should there be consequences if a ball is hit up the middle by accident?
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| Catapult
September 1, 2011
5:35:43 PM
Entry #: 3792711
| For sure.
Accident or not I think an automatic out is a cheap way to protect the pitchers.
Doug
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| widds
September 1, 2011
5:46:22 PM
Entry #: 3792721
| I respectfully disagree Doug!
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| pooch
September 1, 2011
6:09:10 PM
Entry #: 3792731
| Absolutely, we hope that Kirk is okay, to say the least, and it sounds like he is. Thank God for that...
Widds, I'm sorry, but, you said the same thing last year, when, this topic was raised. I'm, personally, having a bit of a hard time getting my heard around your thoughts on it.
If, the batter has it in his mind, FIRST and FOREMOST, that he should not shoot the box, which is what the case SHOULD be, then, wouldn't he just go with the outside pitch and drive it down the line for a base hit? He has all the time in the world, it's slo-pitch...change that one swing, or, let the outside pitch go...better than killing/hurting someone, isn't it?
In your scenario, probably not...because he obviously cares more about hitting it out-of-the-park, than he does about the other team's, pitcher's, safety.
You, already stated that an outside pitch puts the pitcher in danger...well, the batter, in this case you, knows that, and, should do his best to avoid such a thing, right? I mean you are the last one in contact with the ball before the pitcher's head is in danger, right?...think about it. Who directed the ball that way...it wasn't the pitcher, was it?
Please, let's remember, it's a recreational ball league and we all wake up and go to work the next day...we don't get paid to do this...it's supposed to be for fun, and a little socializing with your friend's and neighbours, right?
Also, let's remember, that usually, the pitchers are the older/slower guys on their respective teams...not always the case, true, but generally I would have to say so...we should not have to worry about our safety. We should have all the confidence that a hitter will be trying his best to avoid the box. Thankfully this is so, in most cases. Sure, accidents happen and we accept that...
It's a little more common lately, though. I personally think that a few teams are trying to go up the middle a lot more than in past years. It's the win-at-all-costs mentality, which doesn't belong in this league, in my opinion.
THINK BEFORE YOU SWING...that could be your dad, your brother, your friend, your neighbour...is it worth a hit???
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| widds
September 1, 2011
7:16:43 PM
Entry #: 3792759
| Pooch....good memory!
Everyone knows how I hit and where I hit. In all the 20+ years of playing ball, I couldn`t count on two hands the number of times I`ve gone up the middle...and specifically for the reasons you are suggesting.
But in the case of an a 2 strike count, I, or anyone else will be swinging at almost anything that comes our way, and that is a fact.........agreed?
A smart pitcher will know where to pitch and many in our league ie: Fuji, Cadorin, Jobber....and many others know exactly where to pitch in order to get a guy out and or avoid a comebacker.
All I`m saying is that it is my opinion that most guys in this league would not deliberately shoot the box understanding the very valid points you suggested. If a guy decides to do it, well, shame on him and perhaps he`s playing in the wrong league. The USPL stands above most other leagues because of the guys in it.
widds
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| Griffer
September 2, 2011
7:10:46 AM
Entry #: 3792900
| what happens when the pitcher cant get out of the way?
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| Steaner Jr
September 2, 2011
7:53:49 AM
Entry #: 3792908
| This is a tough topic cause you can see arguments on both sides. We have seen this a lot playing on Tar this year. The amount of balls shot up the middle on George seems to be going up. I realize that there are some older players in the league that need to use the middle of the field in order to get on base. However, I think these players know the extent of their power and the pitchers presence. Mistakes are made but an experienced player will always give the pitcher a wave and explain that it was an accident.
I think the concern is with some of the younger players in the league using the middle of the field far too much!! It is great that the league is starting to get some great talented young players involved but you don't want to see that infusion of talent come at the expense of our experienced pitchers who are a big part of all of our clubs.
The last thing we would want to see is George decide to call it quits because the ball keeps getting drilled at him and he fears his safety. He fields his position remarkably well but you worry about the time one gets through.
I think Doug has a legitimate argument here but I do agree with Widds that starting to try and punish people for this becomes a slippery slope and is putting a lot on the plates of our umpires to make a call on 'intent' which is almost impossible to do.
This is a common sense issue fellas. Keep it away from the middle of the field wherever you can avoid it and if mistakes are made acknowledge them!
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| widds
September 2, 2011
8:26:15 AM
Entry #: 3792917
| Well said Steaner! (young guy with wisdom)
...was chatting with my good friend Garbee from Blacksmith last night and the topic came up!
Garbee reminded me that there are some leagues that do a few things to alleviate or prevent players from going up the middle.
Somes leagues use a 10` chalked circle around the pitcher`s mound and if any ball comes through that circle, it is an automatic OUT. The caviat is that if the pitcher touches the ball, on purpose, or accidentally, the out in nullified! So in essence, the pither removed as part of the defense and strictly pitches!!! How many of our current pitchers would truly, honestly like that?
Food for thought, but I still agree with Steaner and suggest that guys, young and old, take a little more time to think about where they are hitting the ball.
BTW...good topic Doug.
Widds
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| Seyms
September 2, 2011
9:45:23 AM
Entry #: 3792950
| Steaner you are spot on. The term "shooting the box" as I have learned is something that most (not all) players seem to avoid and is an unwritten rule we all try to adhere to. It has been noticed by myself, only being in the league a few years, that there are a lot of repeat offenders who continually exploit the middle of the diamond. I for one, have gotten on base a couple of times this way, but also hit there mistakenly and had a pitcher make a great play. And every time make sure the pitcher is ok and give my apology. As most of the time the hitter should be able to steer a ball one way or another, if the have any talent or common sense.
I find it hard to believe that anyone in this league would approach the plate with intent or malice to cause injury, but it surely a tough subject. It is a slippery slope indeed in terms of punishment for the crime and also it would seem to place more subjective calls in the hands of our umpires. Perhaps the best way to protect the pitchers is by providing them with optional safety equipment. I have developed some great rapport with pitchers in this league such as cappy, pooch, George to name a few and it bothers me severely when guys take shots at my pitcher jobber repeatedly.
But guys, we must remember that it is baseball, and at any level mistakes, accidents and injuries do occur. WE cannot take away the middle of the diamond, and we can’t avoid injuries. Perhaps the league should look at using some sort of a net (like in batting practice) to let the pitcher stand behind? Shooting the box is stupid and I hate seeing. To call a guy out for hitting a grounder up the middle, could really change the structure of the game as a whole. Recreational league or not, it is baseball. Perhaps the usage of a safety net may be the best way, it protects the pitcher, could allow the hits and if a ball hits the net the batter is out!
Let's all make a concerted effort to keep our pitchers safe from injury and keep the integrity of the game in tact!
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| its just a game
September 2, 2011
11:03:16 AM
Entry #: 3792995
| I hate to say this but you ask an umpire about this and they will basically say "that's why he has a glove" and the last time I noticed a pitcher is part of the defence. I would never try to hit a pitcher, but I do go middle as that is just how I swing, like other guys can only pull and you can give them the other side of the field. Pitchers get hit, 3rd basemen and 1st basemen get hit. If the ball is moving to fast for you than perhaps Masters is the division for you. Part of the problem with these types of leagues is there can be a wide variety and range of players abilities and an A ball player going up the gut on a Rec pitcher can be disasterous. Oh, and believe me not all A ball players can hit the ball exactly where they want. It is a shame when someone gets hurt, get better Kirk, but I doubt anyone does it inentionally.
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| injury prone
September 2, 2011
3:13:56 PM
Entry #: 3793151
| Just to put my two cents in, I find it is the weaker players that try and go up the middle. Good hitters either trust their swing, try and hit it through the infielders, or out of our short parks.
I agree with most that no one is trying to hurt a pitcher, but if you don't have the control you should not be messing with fire by going middle.
Another interesting observation is that I too have noticed that the older the pitcher, the more middle shots there are.
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| silverfox
September 3, 2011
9:59:42 AM
Entry #: 3793512
| What about the third and first base positions? Balls are hit just at hard to them. Let's project them? I know stand further back, but balls that are pulled come back faster than the ones that go to the pitcher.
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| sum66
September 11, 2011
9:33:09 PM
Entry #: 3797494
| Any rule change would just be plain old senseless and dumb.
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| Purelife
September 12, 2011
7:19:36 PM
Entry #: 3798221
| Agreed, it is good.
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| crunchie
September 22, 2011
3:32:55 AM
Entry #: 3804156
| i choose to go oppo. i can pull when i get pitched inside. i can hit the ball on both sides of the plate.
can you?
that is all we need to do for the remaining games
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