View Message Board Guidelines
 |
Author |
TOPIC: "B" Division Split |
|
| Dave Burton
December 31, 2018
5:25:37 PM
Entry #: 4259496
| I have read the comments of Ron Seely and Bill Pollak and agree with their analysis so I won't reiterate what they have said. I have participated in the League since 2002 and was a original member of the "A" Division since its inception in the 2009/2010 season. I remember the outrage of a vast majority of the players at that time who resisted, complained, threatened law suits and went directly to the Town of Jupiter to protest the then split of the League into "A" and "B" Divisions.A Town Administrator (Wilkinson) threatened to end the League's "FREE" use of the fields if the League was unable to properly govern itself in a manner consistent with its founding.The resolution of the split was mitigated by the concern for and potential for serious injury to less capable skilled players, by more experienced powerful hitting players, who were using "juiced-up bats". This imminent danger was likely the impetus that resolved the matter.Today, we do not have such rational, as the split of the "B" Division players is predicated upon the self serving interests of some "B" players to isolate themselves from the main body, based upon their feelings that they are superior players, and their unwillingness to play with players, whose skills they consider inferior. Who appointed them to high-jack the "B" Division for their selfish gratification? Accordingly, I have chosen not to be included on a team roster as a decision by me to play on a team, given the aforesaid circumstances would be acquiescing to and accepting the action to split the "B" Division.
|
|
| Sully
January 5, 2019
8:02:55 PM
Entry #: 4259602
| Dave:
I have no dog in this hunt, but I wanted to clarify something for accuracy.
My first year in the league we could only use ASA bats. I believe that was 2009 or 2010 and was a few years after the initial split.
Later (2011 or so) Teddy was able to convince the city to allow the Senior Softball bats to be used (Mikens) and we had an insurance policy for any liability. (Teddy might remember the time frame. I will always remember Sasso and his "Constitutional right to hit home runs argument.)
The reason I bring it up is that the split was not because of the "hotter" bats and someone getting hurt. The reason I was told (again after the fact) was that specific people wanted to play a more competitive game. Any "safety issue" was because of the age difference and/or playing skill set.
It seems that is what is happening now is the same as took place before I was in the league. A group wants to have a more skillful game to enjoy playing, just like you guys did when you split off back then.
|
|
| Dave Burton
January 5, 2019
11:48:13 PM
Entry #: 4259604
| Sully:
I do not contest the fact that the principle motivation to split off the "A" Division was the desire of the many, if not all, of the "skilled" players to play a more competitive game. However, I believe that the concept of the potential for injury was the rational that carried the day (especially with the Town).
|
|
| Sully
January 6, 2019
10:09:28 AM
Entry #: 4259606
| The safety issue was always a smoke screen and false front.
Scotty, Sasso, Jaeger and I heard the same issue from various super senior players for years how the lower "rated" players should be split off into their own for their own safety. When we got the honest response, it was because some of the "better" super senior players didn't want to play with the lower ones because they couldn't hit, field etc and it hurt the game.
One of my favorites was Ron Barfield who, IMO, had the same right to play as anyone. During the summer I always loved having him on my team and I would throw home and sometimes we would get someone out and the smile he had was great. He WAS my teammate .... This was part of his life.
A few years ago , after many years of trying to belittle Barfield and drum him out of the league, various people finally didn't put him on a team (he was away on a trip at the "deadline") . I told those people that he would die because THEY took an important part of Ron's life away. Being the jerk that I am, I reminded them of that when Ron passed away. Some of those same people who wanted Barfield out are now complaining about this.
IF they expand the Senior division, it waters down that divisions play and causes the Super Senior division play to decline. Is there a safety issue, maybe but that's not the real reason and everyone knows it. (Interestingly, for years the complaint was no Senior players moved to Super Senior.)
There is now group of Super Senior players that wants to play more competitive in the Super Senior division and have a better game. do they have that right? .... IMO, of course.
They could have had 5 or 6 teams in the new mid division, but that would have almost ensured the second division would not have enough people to throw, run catch etc. The game could have barely been played and those guys have a right to play as well. So they decided on 4 teams.
There is an age difference of almost 40 years in the entire association. It is like me playing with a 22 year old. I am not good enough to play with a 22 year old and I NEVER had the ability to play with major leaguers. That's life ( I may not be good enough now to play with a 55 year old).
The ravages of age affect us and the talents we thought we had decline. In the Midwest we went from tee-ball to little league to Babe Ruth and so on. The reason? It wasn't fair for a 8 year year old to play with a 16 year old? Strength, ability etc would cause the younger player to never play to just sit the bench. IF the younger player played, the game play would diminish. (I know there are some that could but those are the exceptions)
As we get older we regress .. we go from Babe Ruth, to little league to tee ball because our skills have diminished. We still want to play to the best of our then current abilities but those abilities have declined.
Is it fair for me to demand to play with 20 year olds, demand to play part of the game and affect THEIR quality of play and enjoyment? That would be selfish wouldn't it?
Everyone complaining about the split seems to be playing in the second league.The complaint is the play isn't good enough and other players are looked down upon as lesser players by the people complaining. When you look at that , Those people complaining are doing to others EXACTLY what they are complaining about. They want to play a better game with better players.
I disagree with some players picked. I disagree with some payers picked in Senior. Sometimes it's an oversight and a mistake, sometimes its based on reality that we have a hard time accepting
|
|
| Dave Burton
January 7, 2019
10:41:49 AM
Entry #: 4259621
| I have found very little in your last reply that is relevant to the instant situation, albeit interesting and worthy of a reply. Notwithstanding your experiences with Ron Barfield, I am hopeful that such comments are not meant to imply that there is an attempt to "drum-out" the less skilled and aging players from the JSSA, by a couple of relatively new people, who want to completely change the nature of the JSSA and its mandate. The obvious facts of life,as they apply to the aging process and ones loss of physical skills may be a topic of conversation that most would likely prefer to avoid. Further, I do not believe there is any concern among the "B" Division players about playing with 20 year olds perhaps among the "A" Division.
More to your point are the questions of rights and demands that appear hidden in the "weeds". You state "There is now group of Super Senior players that wants to play more competitive in the Super Senior division and have a better game. Do they have a right?....IMO, of course."-The fact is that they may have the "desire and or wish", but they do not have the 'right' within the existing framework and bylaws of the JSSA. In my opinion, only by modification of the rules and said bylaws, obtained via consensus of a majority vote of all members of the JSSA should an alteration impacting all members be changed. Further, you state "Is itfair for me to 'demand' to play with 20 year olds, demand to play part of the game and affect THEIR quality of play and enjoyment? That would be selfish wouldn't it?"-To my knowledge the JSSA has not placed any 'demand' on any of the playersother than an obligation to follow the rules of the Association. Your point about 'Everyone complaining about the split seems to be playing in the second league. The complaint is the play isn't good enough and other players are looked down upon as lesser players by the people complaining. When you look at that, Those people complaining are doing to others EXACTLY what they are complaining about. They want to play a better game with better players." With due respect, I frankly think your analysis in incorrect. I have not taken a comprehensive official poll of all of the players that are currently signed-up in the JSSA, to determine the extent of their complaints , and I expect that you have not either. I know of no such complaints of inferiority or superiority among the players, that that has been expressed to me as the cause of their concerns. I am not sure what you mean by the second league as that terminology does not accurately identify anything. Furthermore,my interpretation of the players concern is not that they want to play with 'better players' but that they want to enjoy playing in an atmosphere where the level of play is not exascerbated by an excessive number of lesser skilled players on each team, which has a significant influence on the entire game. Whereas, play under of the original system mitigates the influences of such players as their numbers are spread evenly among the "ten" teams, the consequences of which are minimal, therefore, providing a venue for more enjoyment. Insofar as the four / six team allocation, one must ask the question "if the level of play among the four team players is so good, shouldn't the players be drafted in the "A" Division? There is nothing sacred about a maximum of four teams in said Division.
Please do not send me another reply as I am spending an inordinate amount as a typist, and I am very slow maybe its my age!!
|
|
