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Author |
TOPIC: Who knows the count |
| Opa Ump
March 20, 2013
12:15:21 PM
Entry #: 4040518
| The count is full, 3 balls & 2 strikes. the plate ump gives the count as 3 balls & 1 strike.
The next pitch is a called strike. The plate ump
gives the count of 3 balls & 2 strikes. the next pitch is hit for a home run. Now the defesive coach comes out to complain about the inaccurate count. What should happen?????????????
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| Perry
March 20, 2013
5:36:56 PM
Entry #: 4040611
| Ump calls count 3 & 1, when it is actually full at 3 & 2. When the next pitch is thrown and called a strike (actually a strikeout), but the ump now says that it's full, I think that since the next pitch has been thrown, that it now should be officially a full count since it wasn't appealed before the next pitch was thrown. Then the homerun would stand.
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| Jim D.
March 20, 2013
10:43:14 PM
Entry #: 4040704
| Where's the plate umpire's partner in all of this?
Was there another umpire? One way or the other, it is, or should be a correctable error, as long as it is corrected before the next batter receives a pitch. Strike out, and no home run is the answer, if the home plate umpire can go back and realize that he/she made a mistake and correct themselves.
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| Cindy
March 22, 2013
12:38:35 AM
Entry #: 4041008
| Home run.
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| Perry
March 28, 2013
12:51:38 PM
Entry #: 4042485
| What's the answer, OPA?
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| Cindy
March 31, 2013
5:05:19 PM
Entry #: 4043056
| Where's Hank when we need him?
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| Neal
March 31, 2013
8:04:15 PM
Entry #: 4043087
| Rule 10 (Umpires) Section 3 (umpires Judgement) part C The plate umpire may rectify any situation in which the reversal of an umpires decision or a delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, a runner or the defensive team in jeopardy. So we have a strike out when the umpire corrects his mistake.
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| Hank
April 1, 2013
9:24:05 AM
Entry #: 4043186
| Neal is correct ASA Rule 10-3- as long as appeal is done before next pitch. Yes- umpire in field responsibility is to also keep count and should have conferred with plate ump when wrong count announced.
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| Opa Ump
April 1, 2013
9:38:25 PM
Entry #: 4043411
| Appeals must be made before the next pitch legal or illegal. There is nothing that says before the next pitch to a different batter. The time to make the appeal was when the umpire gave the count wrong as being full when it was a strike out. Since the next pitch had been thrown, the Umpire can no longer go back and change his call and the play stands. This is a prime example for the use of preventive Umpiring. Base Umpires must remain in the game for every pitch. I would have called time and went in and tell my plate umpire quietly that I had a 3 and 2 count before the strike out pitch, or at the very least that I had strike 3 when he called ball 4. This would have avoided a embarrassing moment.
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| Bill
April 18, 2013
2:47:10 PM
Entry #: 4048505
| Wow! We certainly got a great deal of e-mail responses on this one! Lots of debate internally, and it pushed all the way up to the state, the region, and all the way to the ASA Eastern U-I-C Supervisor, Jim Craig. Correctable error is what I initially thought, but before the next pitch stuck in my mind. JIM CRAIG'S INTERPRETATION, IS JUST THAT, AN INTERPRETATION. You won't necessarily find his words in the Rule Book. Jim said, "as long as the batter is still in the box, or still at bat in someway, and a pitch hasn't been thrown to the next batter, that the error can be corrected." His interpretation is based on RULE 9, SECTION 1A (1-4). The words from RULE 9, or for that matter the words in RULE 10, that Bob Mauger mentions, either way are a real stretch. But that's what interpretations are. They are interpretations or opinions, based on the intent of the written rule.
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| Bill from (Peters/Mauger/Craig)
April 18, 2013
2:50:20 PM
Entry #: 4048507
| HERE IS THE PLAY as submitted by Bob Mauger to Jim Craig.
A pitch to a batter is a strike. This makes the
count 3 balls and 2 strikes. However the umpire signals and announces
the count of 3 balls and 1 strike. The next pitch is a strike and the
umpire signals and announces the count of 3 balls and 2 strikes. The
next pitch is batted over the fence for a home run. The defensive team
goes to the umpire and states that the batter should have been out on
strikes. They protest a rules violation that the umpire did call 3
strikes on the batter before the batter hit the home run. The umpire
did realize he had called 3 strikes on the batter and remembers
signaling the wrong count.
Is this a legal protest situation or would Rule 10 cover the play.
Is the batter declared out, or since a pitch was thrown, allow the
home run?
HERE IS THE INTERPRETATION FROM JIM CRAIG:
Once the umpire realized the count was wrong and that in fact
strike three had been called, the batter should be declared out. The
Home Run would not count because the batter struck out one pitch
before. It is also recommended that prior to making the final decision
your partner or partners are consulted. The premise is that an umpire
can correct the count on a batter at any point during the batter's time
at bat and before a pitch to the next batter.
The Rule reference is as follows: Rule 9, Section 1A {1-4]
RULE 9
Section 1. PROTESTS. There are three types of protests:
A. Misinterpretation of a playing rule - must be made:
1. before the next pitch legal or illegal,
2. before the next play
3. before all infielders have left fair territory,
4. on the last play of the game, before the umpires leave live ball territory
B. Illegal player
RULE 10
Section 3. UMPIRE’S JUDGMENT.
C. The plate umpire may rectify any situation in which the reversal of an umpire’s
decision or a delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, a runner or
the defensive team in jeopardy. This correction is not possible after one pitch
legal or illegal or after the pitcher and all infielders have clearly vacated their
normal fielding positions and have left fair territory on their way to the bench
or dugout area, or after the last play of the game, the umpires have left the
field of play.
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| Perry
April 21, 2013
10:23:03 PM
Entry #: 4049309
| Looks like Neal and Hank were correct right from the very beginning. But Opa's reasoning is just that, reasonable. And most of us would have ruled it that way, I'm sure.
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| Greg
April 24, 2013
4:32:35 PM
Entry #: 4050340
| Both points of view deserve merit. I would have ruled the strike out and negated the home run, only because it seemed like the right thing to do. I would have never been able to justify it the way the U-I-C did.
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