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TOPIC: Batter enters Dugout |
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| Sent to Forum
November 3, 2016
10:35:50 AM
Entry #: 4211018
| R1 on third. Two outs. Two and one (2-1) count on the batter. Next pitch is a strike, making the count two and two. Thinking that it was the third strike, the batter walks toward the dugout. The batter actually walks into the dugout. Immediately after the batter entered the dugout, the runner from third (R1) breaks for home. The pitcher has the ball outside of the circle and throws home. The runner is ruled safe. Does the run count? Do you have any other ruling?
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| Greg
November 3, 2016
8:02:01 PM
Entry #: 4211055
| Isn't the runner out after they enter dead ball territory?
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| RKB
November 3, 2016
8:07:30 PM
Entry #: 4211056
| The runner didnt enter the dugout, the batter did. Look under rule 7-6, the batter is out when..... and rule 8-2, The batter/runner is out when. You will get your answer in these 2 rules.
When reading the 2 rules, remember we have a batter, not a batter runner.
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| Tammy
November 5, 2016
4:41:24 PM
Entry #: 4211141
| I don't see the definitive rule under either of those cited. What am I missing here?
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| joe
November 5, 2016
9:52:16 PM
Entry #: 4211144
| I do not see any rule in ASA rule book that covers a batter with a 2 and two count and not called out. Dropped third strike, missing plate etc is.covered.
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| Greg
November 7, 2016
7:51:57 AM
Entry #: 4211169
| I agree with you, Joe. I've been looking and looking.
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| Perry
November 8, 2016
10:52:11 AM
Entry #: 4211239
| Not sure that you can just declare somebody out, that has only has two strikes on them. They could have been looking for another bat or batting glove, without having called time out.
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| From John Cambridge
November 18, 2016
10:26:07 AM
Entry #: 4211726
| If I am the plate umpire, I would not allow this situation to occur.
As soon as the plate umpire sees the batter thinking that it is strike three, and starts to walk off, I would immediately call time and tell the batter that there are only two strikes.
I would also warn the batter that she must keep one foot in the batter's box as per
Rule 7 Section 3D.
I would not allow the batter to just walk away, and certainly would not let her make it all the way to
the dugout before addressing it. If it did occur, then I would correct the situation and place the runner back at third, with no run
Our job is to control and manage the game, By allowing the batter to make their way
into the dugout in this situation, we would have failed in our duties and in my opinion caused this issue.
This is what I would do. As always, any input or discussion is welcomed.
John Cambridge
New Jersey State U-I-C
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| JS
November 18, 2016
11:23:57 AM
Entry #: 4211729
| Thank you for the great reply. Along the same lines what would you do if there were two outs and both the defense and the offense (base runners) began to leave the field of play? Would you call time and re-position everyone or just let it go?
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| RKB
November 18, 2016
11:40:45 AM
Entry #: 4211730
| What rule are you using to call time with the ball not in the circle, a runner still off base and live playing action going on?
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| John K. Cambridge
November 18, 2016
3:48:52 PM
Entry #: 4211752
| Do I need a "RULE" to call time or dead ball??
I can call time anytime needed if in my judgement there is a reason for it!
In this case , the reason is clear... time should be called before batter entered the dugout to avoid this silly situation...
Umpiring is tough enough, we don't need to add to it... We can and should be able to address this situation before it becomes a situation!!
John K. Cambridge
New Jersey State USA Softball UIC
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| Bill Lunger
November 19, 2016
8:25:47 AM
Entry #: 4211775
| Thank you for your input, John. Hank McClary reached out to you on our behalf, and we're very happy to have you join us on the FORUM.
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| RKB
November 20, 2016
12:11:51 PM
Entry #: 4211815
| First off, 7-3-D has absolutely no bearing on the play and there is no reason to warn the batter for not keeping a foot in the batters box. Exception 7, when the pitcher leaves the 8' circle or the catcher leaves the catchers box. Per the original post, the pitcher was not in the circle, therefore the batter has no requirement to keep a foot in the batters box. Further, per the effect under 7-3, the batter would have to leave the batters box AND delay play for the ball to be declared dead and either warn or call a penalty strike. Again, the pitcher was not even in the circle so the batter could not possibly have been delaying play.
As for calling time, yes, 10-4-A does say an umpire can call time if judgment justifies taking such action. But, 10-4-E states an umpire shall not call time while any play is in progress. There was a runner legally off base who attempted to advance, the pitcher was not in the circle and attempted a play on the advancing runner.
Yes, an umpires job is difficult, but our job is to enforce the rules, not protect either team from doing something stupid. I see no reason to call time per the play presented. Score the run and bring the batter back to complete the at bat.
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| neal
November 20, 2016
1:46:35 PM
Entry #: 4211817
| John, I have to agree with RKB in his assessment of the call. You have no idea why the girl is leaving the playing field. She can be going to get another bat, Change batting gloves, get sunglasses. You don't need to call time and especially when you have a girl off of third base and the pitcher does not have the ball in the circle.
Thanks
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