 |
Author |
TOPIC: 2 teams ! |
| Coach Luc
April 13, 2005
7:59:19 PM
Entry #: 798552
| Hello everyone!
As a parent I understand that safety is a big issue.
The equipment provides first defence, this combined with proper nutrition, hard training and mental readiness will prepare the kids for what happens on the field.
However if the thought of your kid being hurt is a big concern then maybe football should not be your #1 choice sport.
It doesn't matter how big and strong you are if you play football, there will be bumps bruises and injuries.
I played 10 years and still feel it 20 years later.
As for the 1 vs 2 team issue.
As a parent I think it's great when my kid win's those games. The competitor in me likes victory.
In a 1 team approach, we would keep the best players and 25 kids would be cut. We would still have 50 kids in the team. And so a lot of your kids would end up playing for minutes in the game.
We would win more games for sure. But life is rarely paved with 12-0 seasons and then what will the kids have learned ?
With two balanced team we would have two 35 player teams. The kids will play a lot more. More will learn about the game of football. More will learn how to win and how to lose.
As a coach. I saw kids on the bench last year and it's not pretty.
I will gladly trade all my trophies to give a kid a chance to come out of his shell, and gain enough confidence in himself and his abilities to whack somebody on his butt for the first time :)
Can you tell I am not a Hockey coach (sorry Hockey coaches !)
As for the BIG vs 'recreational' player thing, don't worry about it. Bantam football takes care of that in a natural way. It separates men from children very fast.
It's still early an we have a lot to accomplish before the season starts. It might even be too early to worry about those things.
Football is a great sport !
Politics are not ! Ask juge Gommery ! :)
See you at practice Sunday!
|
|
| Andy V
April 13, 2005
8:30:00 PM
Entry #: 798595
| Hey Coach Luc, well put from that perspective,but spitting the players into 2 equally balanced competitive teams just doesn't jive. they might be competitive in regards to playing each other but not against other teams in the league boasting the cream of their crop. Secondly, 2 teams of 35 players with the overall player strength diluted doesn't guarantee more play time at all!... A team wanting to be competitive would have the coaching staff leaning to keep their better players on most of the time(Mind you I could be wrong about the coaches). Sine the point structure plays such a big part..By trying to balance 2 teams you weaken the stronger players, since the majority of their team support would be weaker in general. I've expererienced the 2 team scenario last year, which caused some friction between parents who built relationships through out the training camp, just to be opponents in the regular season.. In closing I truly respect your opinion as a coach...really I do...
One last question if I may... Would this scenario be considered at the Bantam or Midget level? My guess is it would not..I wonder why, the reasons should be the same here.. See ya Sunday!
|
|
| Debra
April 13, 2005
9:06:57 PM
Entry #: 798645
| In response to Coach Luc, I think that the intentions are well meant and I don't want to take anything away from that. Of course I'd love to see all the kids play and enjoy themselves, but I think at Peewee level (I could be wrong), the opposing teams will be more focused on their best players playing vs having all their players having a turn on the field. Not only that, even the great players lose their effectiveness and motivation if they're not backed by a solid team - and that tends to break team morale. I'd rather see a 'development' team where they strive to earn a spot on the elite team. Failing to do this will make us weaker as a team because all the other organizations do not experiment with balancing out the talent - their philosophy is the best players make the team... so how competitive will we really be. Can't argue with the fact that balancing the talent means diluting the talent. Just thoughts - could be wrong.
|
|
| Debra
April 13, 2005
9:20:50 PM
Entry #: 798666
| Just an added comment. It is not a matter of accepting the "getting hurt" and roughness of tackle football ... thats a given. What the issue is, is opening up players to additional possible injury due to a lack of a solid team that will provide the necessary protection. What good is a great qback when he gets sacked all the time because he's not effectively protected, and what good is a fast running back if he doesn't have effective blockers. Good equipment, proper nutrition, hard training and mental readiness certainly does go a long way, but it means nothing when it is not backed by a solid cohesive group of players.
|
| Danny
April 14, 2005
12:57:37 AM
Entry #: 798946
| well i have read all the post on this subject.i was here last year at the mosquito level.and i was coatching.
and this year they want to put to team at the mosquito level.same as pee wee.equal force.
well....
football is a very competitive games no doubt about that.and when i was playing if a player would be cut they will say to him:sorry guy.better luck next year.
thats it.
if you make to equal thing,you bring the best player to a lower level.wich is not good.and dont think they will get better by praticing will less talented player.keeping in mind that a good football program need to develop the best player for the higher level,what good can it be to do this???
and at the mosquito level,there is more.they will split both team equally yes.PLUS both team are gonna pratice all year long together.what is this?i have never seen anything like this.if it's a good idea like some think to have the player to pratice against more player than theire only team,then why do the alouettes are not praticing against the renegades?????
seriously,doing dis you will have a kid with little football aptitude praticing against a player who can be one of the best at his position.
lets take the Mvp's from last year and put them against some marginal(no offense there)players,the firs one will find it to easy and the other will get the crap beaten out of him during pratice.mays be,MAY BE he will lear a little bit yes.but what good will the first get out of it?nothing.
end evenmore,the 2 team will have the same playbook.WHAT THE????
it look like the league want to have a team of 60 but the rules will not permit it.so hey lets do 2 team instead but keep it like one.
if the stallions football program want to be more like a summercamp or kindergarten,it is on the good way.
but if it want to be competitive and develope good player for the higher level,it's in the wrong lane.
they seem to put more focus on the number of player and the $ from the iscription than having a good program.
this is competition.if the kid is not performing enough,well it is normal he is cut.sad,but that is competition.
but if you put a second developement team and that player can learn,he will play and may be later graduate to the better team.but at least he will play and have fun.
but by having 2 equal team you are penalyzing the better player in the process.for what perpess?
to make the less experience player play,that he as the right to play?
let me tell you that he will play in a developement team also.
i pay 200$ to put my son in the most competitive environement possible.this is not it.
and my son is not happy with the facts that he will sweat and give 110% of him in pratice and have on his side in a game a player that do not have the ability to be there in the first place,but also might do nothing and is laysy in pratice.cause everybody is gonna play like the head coach said.theire will be NO cut and Everybody will play.
i found all this very sad.i could deal with to equal team even if i see no good doing this.but the rest.....
and now,my son in talking about quiting this year
because of all this.and i did not influence him on this.i told hiem that this was HIS decision and i will respect it regardless of the issue.
i really dont see the poin of doing all this....
Danny
|
|
| another one bites the dust
April 14, 2005
9:47:14 AM
Entry #: 799257
| After reading Danny's reply and in full agreement with it, it is extremely sad and ridiculous that the association is losing (most likely) another good coach at the mosquito level. What is going on here?
|
| Zbig
April 14, 2005
10:28:27 AM
Entry #: 799344
| I wish to remind everyone, as I mentioned on the home page, that it is not helpful to publicize your own speculation. This does not help anyone. Making a statement that a coach may be leaving is exactly that - speculation. If you hear such speculation or similar rumours please address it directly with the coaches and the association executives.
I would just like to remind everyone that as much as we would all like every one of our teams to win the provincial championship you must remember that football, probably more than any other, is a TEAM sport. It is the SUM TOTAL of all the players and coaches and it is NOT just a few stars supported by the rest of the group.
Last year, the pee-wee team was very successful. Why was it successful? Because it was very well balanced. Let me remind you what the head coach of that team said last year:
“The rookies and veterans. We’ve also jelled very well and our team spirit is outstanding. ... As a result, we’ve been able to put together a team that has a terrific balance on offence and defence.”
Please try to keep the ideal of team spirit in mind when you post your opinions.
|
|
| Andy V
April 14, 2005
12:09:04 PM
Entry #: 799552
| Zbig, You are alsolutely right when it comes to the success that the Pee Wee team had last year.
They had a big bench of players to choose from fitting their best players (rookie or veteran) where needed "balancing" out the team nicely.
By encouraging a 2 team scenario balancing out (splitting up your best players rookie or veteran) the players defeats the purpose of providing Saint Lazare a competitive team again this year since the automatic dilution is apparent. By all means this is a team sport and to build the best team possible you need to pick from the best available.. Hence Northshore's success..
|
|
| Zbig
April 14, 2005
1:02:16 PM
Entry #: 799696
| Andy,
Ooops, maybe I used the wrong quotation.
I was trying to use it to support the idea of two equal teams, each with a balance of rookies and veterans. That is what I, personally, and not speaking for anyone else, would prefer.
|
|
| Teufel
April 14, 2005
3:48:38 PM
Entry #: 800077
| well.i can say i agree with andy.
and first,it is not the fact that the kid is a rookie that matter.it is is ability to play football.
I can say that last year i chose some rookie over some other kid that have played before.there was simply more talent on the rookie i choose(already there or to be develope)
what i am saying is this is a competition.you should be choosen by your ability.not how many year you played.
if a well talented player always pratice against a player who would have been cut with only one team or one strong and another less powerfull,he will not improve but also loose intensity also....no copmpetition.
and for the less talented kid,i doubt that i will like to always have his a.. kicked during pratice.
so if we want to develope player for the higher level,i dont think we are mistaken right now.we are bringing the best to the lowest common denominator.
do you really want to develope the kids for the higher level or have a garage league?
that is the question.
|
|
April 14, 2005
3:50:52 PM
Entry #: 800078
| Forgot to say...
even if i dont agree with to equal team,i could live with it.
but with all the rest going on at the mosquito level...i am not sure.
|
| Coach Luc
April 14, 2005
7:40:47 PM
Entry #: 800490
| Good debate !
I must agree that sometimes a rookie player will indeed be far more promising than a veteran and that is just plain talent. Sometimes size :)
When I adressed this board the focus was mostly about safety.
Now I see it turning more towards competition.
Big difference, being concerned about the kids safety and being concerned about winning games.
There is nothing wrong with wanting a winning team. There is nothing wrong to want to teach a majority of kids football either.
Take last year for example, we had a pretty big team with good size kids overall. A good mix of veterans and rookies too..
We had a great year 12-0 and still we were crushed by Laval. That will not change this year even if we go with an Elite and secondary team approach.
These guys in Laval are drafting from a huge number of players and that's why they are so strong.
It's like we would pool all of NSFL together to create THE Elite pee-wee team. Only then we might be competitive against the cougars.
I understand your feelings. I am a really competitive guy too. But again it's not only about winning football games.
Last year we crushed the other teams so bad sometimes it did not feel right. I really don't think we would not be competitive this year with a balanced team approach. We would probably lose some games, maybe lose the cup, but there would be some competition at least.
Asides from the cougar game, we dominated everything else with a LOT of ease.
Food for thought !
|
|
| Teufel
April 14, 2005
9:11:02 PM
Entry #: 800622
| what i mean,and it is point #6 on coach michel from the mosquito,is that we are here to make the kid progress.to make them ready for the subsequent level.but i can tell name from certain mosquito player that will learn nothing by praticing against way less talented team mate.my son for example will loose enthousiast(already have)by finding it to easy.and after that his intensity level will drop a notch.will he be metter at the end of the season?not at all.
we need to put the best possible player against player like my son to keep their interest and rais their playing level thus improving.
that is why i say that to equal team will not make a lot on player better but permit some of them to have their A.. kicked.
if this is the way this organisation wants it,i connot change it.but they must not put ours head in the ground and pretend that the stallions will still be competitive organisation.
will compete for the bottom of the standing and if we are lucky the middle.
you cann6ot have a good competitive program that develope the best player while at the same time helping the less talented one.
even at school they put the strong kid in math to make them progress more dont they?
same thing apply here.
Danny
|
|
| Interesting discussion
April 15, 2005
8:58:36 AM
Entry #: 801118
| Coach Luc, you make good points. Both safey and competitiveness can be addressed together. From this I mean that you've got the "players" who want to go out there and win BUT if their teammates are inexperienced, then safety comes into play because those players will not be protected. We cannot compare last year's team to the one coming up, the talent and experience pool is just not there this year. You've got the 2 dozen players and not much else. You can have the best coaching but if you don't have football players, it doesn't matter. As Danny points out, the players will not get better if they are not challenged. Seems that this year will be unlike any we've ever seen both from the mosquito and peewee levels.
|
|
|
April 15, 2005
6:28:50 PM
Entry #: 802136
| this post is saying exactly want i am saying.
it is gonna be a very ordinary year.not like last year that is for sure.
|
|
| Let the kids PLAY!
April 20, 2005
2:38:19 PM
Entry #: 808505
| What is everyone afriad of? What about the kids did you all forget about that. Bottom line having a strong solid team that wins is great GOOD FOR YOU. but what about the kids who want to play but do not have the skills yet. Having a second team that plays in a different league or division allows for all those players to grow.
What other options do you have? Cut the kids? Great then where do they go? Better yet lets put the shoes on you. Here is the situation. You kid was on the team last year. Now because the association did a great job in marketing and the team did a great job and won games 100 kids come out. The team can only take 50. and you kid even though he was on the team last year and did a good job at the position they play all of a sudden doen't make the cut.
let me guess you as the Parent are going to hit the roof.
Let me make this point clear. No one likes change. but not changing can come back and bite you hard.
For the concerned parents remember this quote from the Late Great Vince Lombardi. "if you do not fire out with enthusiam then you will be fired with enthusiam"
and just remember kids at this age all they want to do is play and have fun with the team and friends.
One more item. Peewee has more then 1 league. Let you players develop. Who knows that kid that you want to cut from an "elite" team just might get the coaching they need and become the next Bruno Heppell.
Mike
|
|
| Danny
April 28, 2005
2:21:25 AM
Entry #: 820122
| after reading you,i am a little confuse.
we are talking about 2 teams yes.but we are also talking that kids need to be chalenge to improved.
i can take my son as an example but then certain person says that i think only of my and my son and not the team..Hummm.
kids want to play that is for sure.but i can tell you that a lot of them wich i know loose interest fast in pratice if it is to easy.and they get bored and loose intensivity.and they will not improve and THE TEAM will not be better also.but hey.this is only my opinion and also the opinion af many parents so it wont change a thing on what they have decided to do.
will see the result on the kids when the season goes by.
|
|
| to danny
April 28, 2005
8:48:30 AM
Entry #: 820286
| Danny, I agree with your comments, the boys who are here to really play will get very frustrated when they realize that they aren't playing with others of their caliber. That brings back the safety issue where if the others don't do their job, then someone will be hurt. Don't understand the concept here of making 2 equal teams. Cannot say that they will be competitive. We'll see how many boys show up once equipment is given, makes a big difference when they start getting hit...
|
|
| Danny
April 28, 2005
9:52:47 PM
Entry #: 821727
| As for safety,i can name at least 2 kids that are gonna hurt others players in pratice this year.not because they want to,but because a lot of kids are not the same caliber as them.the best player can face the less talented player one on one in a drill.and in that case,the best player should not retain his power.caus in a game is opponent wont hold back.
and this will cause many bruise on some kids this year.
and as i already said,the most talented will find it easy and will not improve or way less than if he face player more like his own skill.
as for the less talented player,after ending on his butt several time,some will just quit and other will lose interest in the sport.
too bad.
|
